Inventory and account order received from solicitor despite already sending inventory to beneficary

mr_jma

No leaflets or any information, just this letter with a photocopy of the order sent by the solicitor, an affidavit and the documents such as death certificate and probate certificate.

Manxman_in_exile

Sorry mr_jma, but are you absolutely certain that neither you nor your mother had any prior notice of this court action before receiving a copy of the court order itself from your uncle's solicitors?  Nothing else from the court, or from your uncle or from his solicitors?

Is there any reason why mail would not reach you or your mother?  No change of address or anything that your uncle or his solicitors would not be aware of?

As others have said, I'd reply to his solicitors with copies of everything you had already sent him, explaining to them that their court action had been unnecessary.  Also make sure that whenever you communicate with your uncle you copy in his solicitors as well.

As others have also said, you may be well advised to seek legal advice on behalf of yourself and your mother until you get this confusion sorted out.

[EDIT:  If your uncle lives abroad(?) are you sure that he received all the accounts etc that you sent him?]

mr_jma

I have emailed the solicitor today and attached all the emails I sent to my uncle.  I will write to the court to say that the action is unesesary as we have been keeping my unlce up to date and  provided the information they have requested, but he has not passed this onto his solicitor.

Manxman_in_exile

I think it's your uncle's solicitor (and your uncle) to whom you should be pointing out that the court action was unnecessary as you had already provided all the required information to your uncle.  I think I'd also be telling them (ie his solicitors) to withdraw the court action and to get the order against you for costs cancelled as you have not been at fault here.

I'm not sure I would tell the court at this stage that the order was not required.  (I'm not sure how you would tell them).  I think I'd wait on that until I'd spoken to your uncle's solicitor and/or sought legal advice myself.  But see what other posters here suggest over the weekend before doing anything.  I'm no lawyer so I'm not sure how you should proceed.  What I think I do know is that you need to get that court order over-turned as a priority as you don't want to be found in breach of it and be facing possibly serious consequences.  (Sorry - not trying to scare you - just want to try to make sure you do the right thing in this situation).

All this is assuming that what you have told us is accurate and that you had already supplied all the required accounts etc to your uncle, of course.

And going back to my earlier questions, (1) you and your mother had no prior notice of this court action?  (2)  You and your mother have not changed addresses or had any problems receiving your mail?  And (3) you previously sent the information to your uncle at the correct address?

Wait and see what others say over the weekend and act from there.

Robert_McGeddon

Hi mr_jma.  I broadly agree with the replies to date. Have you done an internet search on "probate inventory of account" or similar? Results of interest here and here, amongst others. In particular it appears costs are expected to be for the applicant, not you.

Dealing with the court is far more important than dealing with the solicitor. You must write "signed for" or better saying what you have already said here highligting that you have been reasonable and conscientous throughout, that the solicitor has not given the court a full and true picture of the situation when making the application and you wish to have the costs set aside both because of this and the fact they are excessive. You should also say that you have had no direct communication from the court. As your Mum is the Executor you may need to be a littlce careful how you word things. I am curious too as to why the section for an appearance date was not completed - you might ask if an appearance at court is expected.

Not directly connected: Did the house sell for more than probate value? If so, you may have CGT reporting to attend to, the deadline for which has already expired.

mr_jma

Manxman,  We have lived at the same address for years.  We had 1 letter before the house completion in May to which I replied to with a full update followed by  the completion statement, then mum received 1 brief 2 line email in June saying he has the right to apply to a court.  I sent the statement of accounts to him with days then but he instructed the solicitor to apply to the court on the basis he has not had any communication from us. 

What I don't understand is what notices we should have receievd before this summons?  Should we have given a breakdown of costs?

We have since been in touch with my uncle and he has refused to provde his bank details and he has said funds should only be sent when we are instructed to do so by his soicitor or the court.   We have been accused of not distributing the estate and not proving the statement ot accounts.

I have written a response to the court (not posted it yet), saying I would like the costs set aside on the basis we'd already sent the accounts and it is unecessary.  I have inlcuded all the emails we received from my uncle and given a timeline of what we have done to administer the estate.  Also i will say we cannot distibute the estate as he won't send us bank account details.

I will email a solicitor for advice later today to see if what they say.  I will have to respond to the court though as a solicitor won't act in time.

I've been very axious over the weekend, I'm concerned about my mum being ask to attend court.  She is not fit enough, I'd hope we could pay as olicitor to go n her behalf.

Can i just sincerly thank everyone for the replies and advice you given so far, thanks for taking the time to reply.

TBagpuss

What did he / his solicitors say in their affidavit? 
In particular - are any of the statements in in factually wrong? For instance, does it state that you have not responded to requests, that you have not provided information, or that you have been given notice of the application?

Manxman_in_exile

OK.  Thanks for the reply.

I would have thought it is very unusual for anyone to be the subject of a court order and the first thing they know about it is when they read the order against them that a court has already granted!  If you think about it in terms of what is fair and just, how could any court make an order against you after hearing only one side of the story, and not giving you (or your mother) the opportunity to defend the application and to put your side of the story?  It doesn't sound to me as if the correct procedure has been followed?

Like TBagpuss I'm not a lawyer but I think what ought to have happened is: you should have received a letter from your uncle or his solicitors threatening to apply for a court order if you don't [do whatever it is they want the court order for]; then you should have received notification that an application had been made to the court for the order and you should have had an opportunity to defend it on paper; you should have been given notifiaction that the application for the order was to be heard in court, and you given an opportunity to attend to present your side of the story.

That's the sort of thing I would normally expect from a court process, but I'm not a lawyer and maybe the Probate Court works differently?

I don't know what timescales you have to adhere to from the court order (I think you redacted them), but unless you are close to breaching them, I would personally be reluctant to write anything to the court at this stage without understanding exactly what it is that I'm doing.  I suspect that if you want to overturn or challenge the order in any way, you would have to follow a closely prescribed procedure and you would have to submit the appropriate court application forms and the appropriate fee(s).  Without knowing what you are doing I would have thought it just possible you might make things worse?

You could 'phone the court and ask staff there what you should do in this situation (eg write to the court?) but you have to remember that no-one you speak to on the 'phone is likely to be a qualified lawyer.  They may give you bad advice trying to be helpful.

If you are in contact with your solicitor this afternoon, I would delay doing anything until you have spoken to them - unless you are coming so close to breaching the order that you have no time to do so.  Did you have a solicitor helping you with the estate?  If not, or if you don't know any lawyers, I understand that some solicitors' firms will give you half an hour's free advice.

As I say, I'm not a lawyer so don't take my opinions as Gospel.  I think your best bet is to get legal advice, but if you haven't got time to do that AND comply with the court order, do what you think is "right".

Have you spoken to your uncle's solicitors today and explained to them that as far as you and your mother are concerned, you sent all the required accounts etc to him before he had even instructed them to apply for an order?

(Sorry to ask this but it's well intended.  Your uncle isn't mentally unwell or in any other way "confused" is he?)

I wish you good luck.

Manxman_in_exile

Just to add, although I am strongly advising you to take legal advice before doing anything more, I do not see any problem in you sending again to your uncle and his solicitors all the estate and account information that you have already sent him - if you think it covers what is demanded in the court order.  You could include a covering letter detailing when the information had previously been sent to him and indicating that you are considering challenging the court order insofar as it awards costs against you, on the grounds that applying for the court order was wholly unnecessary and disproportionate given that you had already supplied the requested information to him.

I think you could do that if you are concerned about running out of time on the court order before getting a solicitor's advice.

But otherwise, remember I am not a lawyer and I strongly recommend you to get your own paid for legal advice.

EDIT:  It's very difficult to give better advice without being able to read all the papers etc.  That's why you really need face to face legal advice.

Good luck again

xylophone

Your late uncle died  intestate around the end of 2019, leaving his two siblings (your mother and a brother who lived abroad) as the heirs to his estate.

Your  surviving (non-resident) uncle was advised of his brother's death and after the funeral, you/your mother had a telephone conversation with him concerning the deceased's estate.

He did not object to  the proposal that your mother would seek Letters of Administration and arrange for the sale of their late brother's property.

LoA were granted to your mother on 19 Feb 2020  (your uncle was not made aware of this?) but  pandemic restrictions meant that the proposed sale of the property was much delayed.

In November  2020 you  were finally able to to get the property on the market  (and received and accepted an offer) and  you told your uncle (by e-mail?) that a sale was pending.

He then instructed a solicitor to obtain LoA in the joint names of your mother and himself - the solicitor contacted you and was informed that LoA had been granted to your mother alone several months earlier.

It seems that you received letters from the solicitor complaining about the delay in settling the estate and asking for estate accounts.

In May 2020 you sent your uncle an e-mail advising that completion of the house sale was imminent and followed this up with a copy of the completion statement.

Your uncle forwarded your e-mails to the solicitor who wrote to you saying that his client was delighted that the house had been sold.

 In June, you e-mailed a copy of the accounts to your uncle and  in a subsequent e-mail, requested his bank details so that you could remit his share of the sale proceeds (and presumably of any other monies he was due).

Despite this, your uncle's solicitor has applied to the court  for production of Inventory and Accounts as here?

https://www.stephens-scown.co.uk/disputes-with-individuals/inheritance-and-trust-disputes/anxious-beneficiaries-and-the-secret-weapon-in-their-armoury/

Is it possible that your uncle did not receive the e-mail which had the Estate Accounts attached?