Double Glazing Frame Weld. Is this normal/acceptable

petehere

Hi,
Just having some windows replaced in our house and the new windows have top openers i.e. smaller windows that open horizontally. Some are double pane units, others 3 pain (one window full height, other two are top opener and smaller vertical opening or fixed frame).

One most of the windows except the ones with a dummy sash front the top opener seems to be a welded on window frame leaving a rather ugly weld mark outside and inside that is raised horizontally on those sections. If its part of a 3 pane window then only the section supports with the top opener has it not the longer frame section that is for the vertical opening. So basically they make the frame for the top opener then weld it onto another frame that is made for the rest of the window.

Is this normal and acceptable? If all the windows had it I would have thought ok but those with dummy sashes (i.e. a false front to make it look like another opening window) dont seem to suffer this weld.

EssexExile

It's normal. Whether it's acceptable to you is another matter but unless you specified something different I think you're lumbered with it. You'll get used to it and not notice it in time.

cattom

thats plastic welding. we use it in the motor trade. why the frame couldn't of been moulded in one, is another question. the fix looks ok though.

Jeepers_Creepers

That is very ugly indeed.

Two points - is it needed at all? And, if it is, why is the quality of the weld so poor?

You can spot the reason why they require two different frame profiles for that vertical mullion; along its LH side, the upper section needs to suit the opener, and the lower section needs to suit the fixed pane.

So, since you have an opener above a fixed, and the two sections require different profiles to suit them, they need to join - weld - two different types of frame section together.

So, the fact it's needed is seemingly 'ok'.

What about the weld quality? Well, you've shown me yours, so I'll show you mine... An added issue with yours is that the actual frame profiles are also 'visually' different - the lower frame has an added thin decorative 'beading' along its upper surface, so the two frames don't even match. (The lower surround might be the removable beading? But, no excuse - so is mine.)

Jeepers...

petehere

Thanks, We have only paid the deposit so far and raised it to the fitters who sent a photo to the showroom. They weren't sure why it is like it is and hadnt noticed it before. Showroom said that some others in the show room are similar (we weren't allowed to goto the show room due to Covid so were only shown demo sample and brochure). We were only told when we were purchasing that they were made to the size of our window and no pictured shown displayed welds other than the expected routed ones your get at the bottom and top corners.

Fitters said they could try to sand it? They are also goign to try to sand a couple of frames that have some damage (one with a small chip on the inside about 5 millimeters). The other with a small drag set of scratches about 2cm on the inside upward bar separating two windows. Unfortunately the frames with the scratches aren't the ones with the weld marks.

Are we in our rights to ask for the frame to be replaced to profiles without the weld as we were not informed of this in advance and raised when we were shown the window installed? Failing this request a frame with a better weld?
For the frames with the small scratch and larger scratches if the sanding doesn't fix it they need replacing?

I looked at the bay window ledge for outside. It is welded but totally smooth on the top where it will show only showing the weld for the hidden part where the support and window frame will sit. So it is possible to have a smooth weld?

We also have noticed in the Georgian windows (i.e. plastic strips that break up a pain that are inserted inside the double glazed pane) that there are small metal filings and small bits of plastic between the double glazing pane glass on the black insulating strip inside i.e. when making the window pane they didnt clean off the plastic and mount before sealing). No way to get to them and clean them as they are in the window but not on the glass.

We were trying to support a local company but it seems to have backfired. Deposit is also paid with credit card if that makes a difference.

Jeepers_Creepers

Credit card is good, yes.

Also, do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? If so, and if there is a case to be made, then they should be able to guide you - and even take it on if necessary.

From what I can see - but I know little about windows other than how to open them - the weld on that vertical mullion IS required, as I've explained before. My window has a similar layout - an 'opener' above a 'fixed'. These need differently-shaped 'sides' to them - one accepts an opening unit, and the other a DG unit with a bead. They are physically different - so a weld (or join) is needed to combine them.

I have to say - tho' I have only my window to compare it by - the weld quality looks poor to me. My windows were also from a local company, and was around 1/3rd the price of a 'national', but they leave nothing to be desired - I couldn't be more pleased.

They were also fitted with no chips, scuffs or scratches. None of that is 'acceptable'. Ie, no-one should expect you to accept it. You bought and paid for 'new' items, and new items is what you should have received.

This is where it gets tricky, tho'... Just how bad is it? Just how 'unacceptable'? I can't answer that for you. Part of it will come down to, say, how 'budget' the windows were? Did you get a number of quotes? Did you compare what you'd get for each type. What did each company say about their quality? The 'promise of a great finish'? The '100% satisfaction you'd be guaranteed'...

What I would say is, that welded joint is obvious - it's bludy obvious. The guys who fitted these should be 'specialists' - this is what they do, day in, day out. They should be spotting such errors instantly. You cannot fit that window without being aware of that poor sticky-out weld. Perhaps they didn't notice it because all their welds are like that - it's 'normal' for their windows?!

I would be very disappointed by it. Would I expect them to replace it? I don't know. But I'd certainly expect a whopping discount.

I have shown you what my weld is like. These were not expensive windows. Three local companies gave very similar quotes (a 4-window bay and a very large bedroom window for ~£1500 fitted, around 6 years ago) and the 'national' (can't remember, Anglian?) was around £3500 after the late-night call to his manager hoping to get "a once-only deal for this lovely couple". I showed him the door, helped him out with my right foot and a "Nice couple ma arris" in his ear.

Unless your windows were dirt cheap, you've been let down by that poor weld and the marks, in my opinion. Just no excuse.

Jeepers_Creepers

Ok, I've just looked again at your photos. Hmm, they are perhaps not as bad as I initially thought! There's a few sticky-out shards which could be carefully trimmed away with a blade (not for you to do), and this would help. The two sections also appear slightly out of alignment, but again not outrageously. They are also not 'even', but some of it (on the rounded profile) actually look literally like a hand-produced arc weld - which it won't be, of course). If that is normal for them, they use poor quality equipment.

It's just 'annoying'. I mean, it should be better, it should be lined up, someone should have cleaned it up by hand. Unacceptable, tho'? That's a toughie.

FreeBear

petehere said: For the frames with the small scratch and larger scratches if the sanding doesn't fix it they need replacing?

Sanding the scratches is just going to leave you with mat white patches where the plastic has been abraded. It will stick out like a sore thumb. Whilst you can get polishing compounds to buff up the plastic, it will still be noticeable.

The same for the welded section - Sanding will reduce the lumpiness, but it will stick out like a sore thumb. My windows look similar to JC's, and I would be miffed if one turned up looking like yours.

NSG666

I've just looked at mine that I fitted myself about 4 years ago and they seem to be manufactured in the same way that you've described i.e. lots of pieces welded together with joints at every intersection like yours. Most of the welds are nice and smooth but the odd one has a bit of a ridge on it but that said, I'd never really noticed until I've had a close look just now as a result of your post. The joint in your photo would look better if the little bit on the right were trimmed with a stanley blade.

I don't think that it looks great but I could live with it as I spend far more time looking through the glass rather than at the frame