At what point do you walk away?

MrsBrush

Here is the situation:

Bungalow sold SSTC, with buyers close to wanting to agree an exchange date.

Offer accepted on house 29/5, vendor instructed PPL on the Monday - who sat on this instruction for 5 weeks and did nothing at all.
Lots of faffing about by PPL and several false starts and delays later, the vendor confirmed he had finally spoken to PPL to sort out some issues with software (not wanting to get into who's fault etc here as it isn't important!) and he sent off all required information to PPL last Monday by registered post, with guaranteed delivery on 3/8. He got the arrival confirmed, so we know they got it.
Roll forward a week (this morning, 10/8), and my solicitor confirmed this morning that the protocol pack STILL has not been sent to him. Therefore, we are still unable to commence the legal enquiries. 

Now the vendor is as keen to sell the property as we are to buy it. I understand that there is almost nothing that I can do to influence this situation. He is tearing his hair out too, as he has a purchase going through as well that is far outstripping the speed of this transaction (using a different solicitor, tellingly)

My solicitor has said that even by these practices' poor standards, this is taking far longer than is reasonable. I am beyond frustrated and upset about this.

I hate the town where I currently live now, and I have wanted to go home for the last 10 years. We are so close, yet so far away still. 

Herein lies my issue. How the hell can they get away with this? And more importantly, if they cant get the first set of information dealt with and over to the buyers' solicitors, how long are they likely to take to answer and deal with enquiries? Its no wonder that Purple Bricks and PPL fail to complete so many of their transactions. Why cant I expect that any organisation calling themselves conveyancers offer a remotely professional service, even as a consumer rather than their direct customer?

What are my options? 

1) walk away and find another property?  Not my preference as prices have risen and properties are still going within days of being listed. We live 35 miles away and can only view at weekends, which was problematic last time round.
2) offer to increase the offer on the house so the seller can use a proper conveyancing company (my EA thinks this is a no-go option, for several reasons)
3) Sit it out and hope that our buyers and the chain are prepared to wait as well?

Tiglet2

MrsBrush said:

Here is the situation:

Bungalow sold SSTC, with buyers close to wanting to agree an exchange date.

Offer accepted on house 29/5, vendor instructed PPL on the Monday - who sat on this instruction for 5 weeks and did nothing at all.
Lots of faffing about by PPL and several false starts and delays later, the vendor confirmed he had finally spoken to PPL to sort out some issues with software (not wanting to get into who's fault etc here as it isn't important!) and he sent off all required information to PPL last Monday by registered post, with guaranteed delivery on 3/8. He got the arrival confirmed, so we know they got it.
Roll forward a week (this morning, 10/8), and my solicitor confirmed this morning that the protocol pack STILL has not been sent to him. Therefore, we are still unable to commence the legal enquiries. 

Why has the vendor waited until now to send off all the required information to PPL if this has been ongoing since the end of May?  Why was the vendor not chased to provide everything?  This is what has caused the delay.

Now the vendor is as keen to sell the property as we are to buy it.

The vendor has done nothing to show he is keen to sell.

I understand that there is almost nothing that I can do to influence this situation. He is tearing his hair out too, as he has a purchase going through as well that is far outstripping the speed of this transaction (using a different solicitor, tellingly)

Using a different solicitor can also create delays, as PPL have to liaise with the purchasing solicitor regarding sending over the monies on exchange as well as completion, rather than complete the onward purchase in-house.  The vendor is at the start of the chain with his purchasing solicitor and they will expect a 10% deposit on exchange, which the vendor may not have if it is all tied up in the sale. They may insist on an Undertaking from PPL to pass up the deposit on exchange, otherwise this may have to be a simultaneous exchange/completion.

My solicitor has said that even by these practices' poor standards, this is taking far longer than is reasonable.

Agree.  The vendor has taken two months to send in the paperwork and pay monies, so PPL couldn't send the draft contract pack.

I am beyond frustrated and upset about this.

I hate the town where I currently live now, and I have wanted to go home for the last 10 years. We are so close, yet so far away still. 

Herein lies my issue. How the hell can they get away with this?

Solicitors send all the paperwork to their client for completion and return.  The client is expected to take responsibility for doing just that.  Solicitors do not visit the client and stand over him while he completes the paperwork, nor do they frogmarch him down to the Bank so he can pay them some initial fees to start the work.

And more importantly, if they cant get the first set of information dealt with and over to the buyers' solicitors, how long are they likely to take to answer and deal with enquiries?

In my experience, both as a client and as a conveyancing assistant, PPL deal with enquiries quickly.  It is the responses to those enquiries from third parties that take time.

Its no wonder that Purple Bricks and PPL fail to complete so many of their transactions.

I doubt you have proof of this.  Many transactions fail because clients do not understand that the work and due diligence does take time.  If third parties take weeks to provide paperwork/evidence and responses, then the transaction will take longer.  No chain transactions are no quicker, since the due diligence is checking that the title is good and it is this that causes delays.  Unfortunately clients can be impatient and will "pull out" when things don't get done in the timescale they want, rather than accept that sometimes "simple" transactions are anything but.

Why cant I expect that any organisation calling themselves conveyancers offer a remotely professional service, even as a consumer rather than their direct customer?

What are my options? 

1) walk away and find another property?  Not my preference as prices have risen and properties are still going within days of being listed. We live 35 miles away and can only view at weekends, which was problematic last time round.
2) offer to increase the offer on the house so the seller can use a proper conveyancing company (my EA thinks this is a no-go option, for several reasons)
3) Sit it out and hope that our buyers and the chain are prepared to wait as well?

Entirely up to you what you want to do.  Doesn't sound like you want to do 1).  2) Do you want to start from scratch, because that is what will happen if your vendor chooses another solicitor? 3) Probably this.

MrsBrush

So what you are saying is it's actually my own fault for picking a house with a vendor who doesn't know what he is doing? 

Whether that is the intention, you answer feels a bit insensitive at best. I am feeling emotional, upset and probably reacting unreasonably at the moment. I can quite safely say that escaping an emotionally abusive marriage was no worse that trying to move house (in part to eradicate the memories). 

(newsflash - unless you buy and sell, or you are in the industry, who would have a clue about what constitutes a good or bad conveyancing service? So, if things fail because clients don't understand the work - and professionals know this, why is someone not specifically explaining it to people? Surely it doesn't change that much over time?)  

Any why the vendor hasn't been chased for information - you tell me. All he has had is excuses and radio silence in equal measure. Neither he nor I have the foggiest about this stuff. I am sure it was never this awful when I sold my last house and bought the bungalow.

 

2bFrank

I am so sorry to hear that you was involved in an abusive marriage, that sounds aweful and so happy to hear you escaped it.

Tiglet has given you some absolute sound facts, at no point have they said that its your own fault for picking a vendor that doesnt know what they are doing, Tiglet has simply given you some sound details and insight to whats occuring. You comment sounds like they was being abusive, which clearly they wasn't.

House buying in the UK, especially England is a horrible process full of many ups/ downs and inbetween, you are at the mercy of the vendors and buyers who can pull out of a purchase at any second until you have exchanged. Whilst your situation seems horrible to you, in all honestly it justs like its a normal house purchase that nearly everyone has gone through.

You have no recourse or means to rush the vendor along, you only option is to walk away if you have not exchanged.

MrsBrush

I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of being abusive (it is me being overly sensitive today) so I really don't want anyone to think that is the case. And agree, Tiglet was factual, and a bit blunt, which is probably ok. I am really struggling to manage to deal reasonably with a bit of bluntness today though, as all I am trying to do is figure out what to do for the best, and where I can turn to for some help, and in this case it doesn't sound as though there is any out there.  I am sure that I am not alone in seeking advice and a bit of support. It is all very well to tell people to take the emotion out, but sometimes it is not possible. As you rightly say @2bFrank, housebuying in the UK is appalling. I am sure I am not alone in needing some support to get through it, as these forums seem to suggest.

Unfortunately, that is what abusive marriages do to people, even many years later as in my case. It is the most unsettling, distressing and hideous thing one human could ever do to another, and it creates longstanding and deep issues that you aren't even aware of until something pops up out of nowhere, like this morning! I read blunt, totally factual incorrectly - I am already upset because I struggle when I have no control. 

This is exactly what gaslighter's do - force you into a situation where you have absolutely no control (even though an abuser will have their own version of fact, twisted, to create maximum distress and anxiety!) You end up feeling as though it IS your fault, even though rationally you know it isn't. 

So, I apologise @Tiglet. I know you were only trying to help.

Sunsaru

@MrsBrush

I've been there. 2 1/2 years later and it still aches.
It never goes away, and some days are better than others and it does get easier.

Virtual Fist Bump.

Ramouth

I’m sorry you are having such a tough time OP.  House moving is stressful.

The only thing I can suggest is that you talk to your solicitor, find out what they need, and then ask the vendor to chase their solicitor to get it done.  I found this be a useful way to get things moving.

deannagone

Please don't take this the wrong way, I really mean to be helpful, but it really does sound to me like you need to get some counselling to help you move further away from your abusive relationship mentally so you can feel less stress at the things that happen in daily life. I am speaking as  someone who has been in a similar situation.  There will be many others on here.

MIND does a low cost service if necessary.

You can change locations but you take your memories with you.  Dealing with them also needs to be attended to.

You aren't alone, but sometimes you just have to take a step back, cross everything and assume good things WILL happen, it may just take a bit of time.  Being out of control of the vendors part of the process is scary, but when you can't change that, you have to look squarely at what you can change, which is your reaction to the process, and try and reduce the stress you are feeling.  When things are getting on top of me, I try to find something I enjoy doing and do it.  I have a list lol.  And it gets used!

When I am doing something that seems impossible and needlessly complicated (if only x y and z wasn't happening), I concentrate on what will happen when its complete.  And try my best to concentrrate on the end result.

Sending lots of hugs.

yllop1101

If the seller really wants to sell, they will pay the small fee to break the contract and use a local reputable conveyancing company instead. I think it's about £300- a drop in the ocean when house buying! You could offer to split it and say if they don't, you will walk away. 

I commented on another of your posts with my own negative experience of PPL, which resulted in us walking away after 12 weeks, having not received a draft contract and the case being passed on 3 times to a different case handler. 
The seller was naïve and blindly stuck with them as they had a nice LPE who said they would sort it, but the reality was they had no power over PPL and couldn't help. 

MrsBrush

I have employee support through work that offers counselling, and yes, I have used it on occasion. I am normally okay, and generally deal with things without any problems. Occasionally though, something does pop up as a trigger. I have a go-to list of fun things to do, that had been massively curtailed by the pandemic restrictions, so thankfully returning to a bit more normality and I work full time as well. Thankfully the football season restarts in a couple of weeks time, so back to watching live football in the ground at long last, and the weather is good enough to get out and go cycling. Despite being desperate for a proper break, I have deliberately not booked a holiday, as I know I couldn't deal with the testing, constantly changing rules and the airport at the moment with the house move as well.

Having no control is probably the worst thing that can happen, so as you can imagine, 18 months of pandemic and all its restrictions, working at home full time in a house I don't want to be in, in a town I cant stand any more, last year's holidays cancelled, a poorly father who has had his operation cancelled several times over the last 18 months and is really struggling, and then the painfully slow house move, which is also to be closer to him has sent my stress levels haywire. So, my solicitor advising this morning that nothing is moving anywhere anytime soon, despite the vendor also pushing at his end daily just about sent me over the edge.

Tiglet2

MrsBrush said:

I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of being abusive (it is me being overly sensitive today) so I really don't want anyone to think that is the case. And agree, Tiglet was factual, and a bit blunt, which is probably ok. I am really struggling to manage to deal reasonably with a bit of bluntness today though, as all I am trying to do is figure out what to do for the best, and where I can turn to for some help, and in this case it doesn't sound as though there is any out there.  I am sure that I am not alone in seeking advice and a bit of support. It is all very well to tell people to take the emotion out, but sometimes it is not possible. As you rightly say @2bFrank, housebuying in the UK is appalling. I am sure I am not alone in needing some support to get through it, as these forums seem to suggest.

Unfortunately, that is what abusive marriages do to people, even many years later as in my case. It is the most unsettling, distressing and hideous thing one human could ever do to another, and it creates longstanding and deep issues that you aren't even aware of until something pops up out of nowhere, like this morning! I read blunt, totally factual incorrectly - I am already upset because I struggle when I have no control. 

This is exactly what gaslighter's do - force you into a situation where you have absolutely no control (even though an abuser will have their own version of fact, twisted, to create maximum distress and anxiety!) You end up feeling as though it IS your fault, even though rationally you know it isn't. 

So, I apologise @Tiglet. I know you were only trying to help.

@MrsBrush

Apology accepted.  

I am sorry to learn about your abusive relationship, that you are feeling emotional and you felt I was too blunt with my responses.  No-one should have to go through what you have been through and you have my sympathy for what must have been an awful time. 

You have come onto a public forum asking for advice.  I gave you free advice and at the time, did not know about the abuse you have suffered and your current emotions.   Buying and selling is a business transaction and most of the advice regarding the legal work will be factual.  Either something is needed or something is awaited.  It's just finding out who needs to do what and when so that progress can be made.

You have slated PPL on several threads, but it is clear that the vendor has played a part in this.  On one of your other threads you said the vendor was elderly and hadn't sold for 40 years.  If that is the case, I have to question why the elderly vendor chose to sell through an internet Estate Agent and signed a contract agreeing to use their internet based partner conveyancers, PPL.  The only conclusion as far as I can see, is the vendor was attracted by the low selling fees and the low conveyancing fees.  But, if the vendor did not know or understand the process and is not computer confident, then this really wasn't the best route to take.  The reason for the low fees is that, while they both do everything needed to sell and conclude the legal transaction, they don't have capacity for talking through all the steps with their client, as their business model is based on volume conveyancing, not quality.  They tend to expect the client to read what they send them (email or post), and for the client to do what they are instructing them to do in the correspondence. 

You probably realise by now that Purple Bricks don't do much chasing and yet, they are the only party that can speak to all parties.  Can your own Estate Agent get actively involved? Alternatively, if you speak to your own solicitor and they say that they are waiting for something, can you approach the vendor directly and ask them to provide it?

You were aware that you needed to be hand held (as per your earlier thread) and, so, you instructed a solicitor who could offer you that service.  The vendor, on the other hand, did not and, it appears, did not read the correspondence they had been sent by PPL and did not complete the forms or provide the documentary evidence that had been requested.

Now that PPL have the paperwork, the draft contract pack should be sent over to your solicitor imminently and then, hopefully, the legal work can be dealt with rapidly.