Final Salary Pension Transfer

RoadToRiches

arty688 said:

RoadToRiches said:

arty688 said:

Not being able to find someone to transfer the money to that you are happy with is the same as not being able transfer in my book.

Well they’re reputable firm and even considering staying with them as their customer service is exceptional. 

You can always use them as a stepping stone if you wish to get the funds where you ultimately want them. No exit fees.

It’s just slightly worrying that information on this doesn’t seem easy to come by and there doesn’t seem to be may stories of ‘ insistent clients’ and firms that accept them. 

I can understand that, this one is open now but who is to say that will remain the case later on. Also it can take quite some time to complete the advice process so it being available now there would be absolutely no guarantees come when you complete the advice process.

Aretnap

eskbanker said:

arty688 said:

Average life expectancy is about 81 so not far off, just like to keep the number round, but wouldn't call it significantly below.

Life expectancy stats are heavily influenced by gender and age (among many other factors) but, while 81 may be an overall current average expectancy from birth, if you're, say, a 40-year old male then your average would be 85, with a far-from-negligible (for planning purposes) 25% chance of reaching 94.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/articles/lifeexpectancycalculator/2019-06-07

And of course that "average life expectancy at at 40" includes all the 40 year olds who have just been diagnosed with cancer, all the 40 year olds who smoke like chimneys, all the 40 year olds who are diabetic and/or severely overweight, and all the 40 year olds who are having a midlife crisis and have just bought a very fast motorbike. If you don't fit into any of those categories, your life expectancy is likely to be significantly higher than 85.

Indeed, the mere fact that you're wealthy enough to have a final salary pension which is worth thinking about transferring, and to contemplate retiring at 60, is something that in itself points to a higher than average life expectancy.

One of the many reasons for the requirement to take advice is that most people (even well educated people) don't understand fairly basic statistics, and massively underestimate their chances of living much longer that the oft quoted "average life expectancy". 

arty688

Another observation re life expectancy is how many of the over 80s are inclined to or ability to spend much money. If you’re not in a care home the chances are you will be happy just to potter about spending not much more than the state pension . There are exceptions of course and I do hope I am one and there is contingency for lasting longer. 

Notepad_Phil

arty688 said:

Another observation re life expectancy is how many of the over 80s are inclined to or ability to spend much money. If you’re not in a care home the chances are you will be happy just to potter about spending not much more than the state pension . There are exceptions of course and I do hope I am one and there is contingency for lasting longer. 

I think a lot of that is down to whether they have enough money to spend on such things - people left with just the state pension (as they've spent most of the rest that they had) are necessarily frugal with what they have left.

If you're single then it's on you if you run out of money, but Mrs Notepad's mum is 97 and still going strong, so I'm planning on our retirement portfolio to need to last at least as long, preferably for both of us, but certainly for her.

Pablo7474

Arty688, I think you need to be careful as there has to be a very good reason to be given positive advise to transfer a DB pension. You say it is a no brainer, why? Can you not meet your retirement objectives by staying in the scheme? 

arty688

It’s purely observational based on my parents, in-laws,  aunties , uncles etc.. most of whom have or had decent pensions.  There is also a generational frugality but by the time they were 80ish they had stopped foreign holidays , driving and generally going out for meals so often etc..

As for the no brainier to me £120k with £30k tax free beats £2.5k a year (index linked) .I can meet my objectives by staying in the scheme but I would also like to be in control of my money and would like the choice of what to do with my money is that wrong?

jamesd

rich744 said:

no one has been able to name a scheme that will accept an insistent client since AJ Bell closed the door. 

Many suggest that it 'should' be possible, but there is no evidence of a successful route.

Any small self-administered scheme (SSAS) should be suitable if ordinary pensions accepting transfers against advice cease to exist. The FCA is not the regulator for SSASs.

Parliament's law on this was eminently clear;

1.People are required to take advice if the transfer is over 30k
2. they then have a right to transfer regardless of what the advice was

The FCA has gone so far as to say it's using regulations to try to make the advice too expensive to be affordable, undermining the intent of Parliament in 1 and a combination of them and FOS and insurer decisions seem to be withdrawing the can do it anyway after advice aspect of 2.

Given a regulator which seems to be trying to undermine the intent of the law - that you can transfer after getting advice, for a cost that makes doing it for a 30k transfer not unreasonable - it seems likely that action is going to be needed to get the freedoms back on track for DB.

Pablo7474

arty688 said:

It’s purely observational based on my parents, in-laws,  aunties , uncles etc.. most of whom have or had decent pensions.  There is also a generational frugality but by the time they were 80ish they had stopped foreign holidays , driving and generally going out for meals so often etc..

As for the no brainier to me £120k with £30k tax free beats £2.5k a year (index linked) .I can meet my objectives by staying in the scheme but I would also like to be in control of my money and would like the choice of what to do with my money is that wrong?

In the eyes of pension transfer advice it is seen as wrong. Wanting control is not a good enough reason to transfer out. 

RoadToRiches

Pablo7474 said:

arty688 said:

It’s purely observational based on my parents, in-laws,  aunties , uncles etc.. most of whom have or had decent pensions.  There is also a generational frugality but by the time they were 80ish they had stopped foreign holidays , driving and generally going out for meals so often etc..

As for the no brainier to me £120k with £30k tax free beats £2.5k a year (index linked) .I can meet my objectives by staying in the scheme but I would also like to be in control of my money and would like the choice of what to do with my money is that wrong?

In the eyes of pension transfer advice it is seen as wrong. Wanting control is not a good enough reason to transfer out. 

Not a good enough reason in itself, but one reason amongst many that I put forward in my case.  I went after the big pot, and still have a DB pension worth about £1,500 PA that would have got me around 70K CETV but figured the costs involved would not make it worth it. Though initially the IFA wanted to include this too, I pulled the plug on the full advice on this small DB pension once they came back with a no deal verdict on the main one.

arty688

I am struggling to see how complicated the advise could be. I know you get hundreds of pages of probably 99% of which are probably an output from a pension application. Take average Bob say he has 2 pension pots worth £500k and a db pension of £2k and owns his house. How hard can it be ? Surely it must be just putting numbers in a application/spreadsheet?

is it just the fear of a mid selling scandal that makes the process so complicated ?

sounds like smoke and mirrors to me.