MSE News: Vodafone to bring back mobile roaming charges in Europe from January

JenB79

simax said:

Undoubtedly the UK networks will now increase their interconnect fees for foreign roamers travelling to the UK.

And we haven’t regressed @M4rtyman ….. Free EU roaming was never free. It was simply paid for via other domestic price increases. The networks were forced to provide free EU roaming at a loss. It’s an artificial entity and as already explained just pushes prices up elsewhere.

You have to pay to roam everywhere else….

So i take it from 2022 EE and Vodafone will give discounts?

redux

simax said:

Undoubtedly the UK networks will now increase their interconnect fees for foreign roamers travelling to the UK.

And we haven’t regressed @M4rtyman ….. Free EU roaming was never free. It was simply paid for via other domestic price increases. The networks were forced to provide free EU roaming at a loss. It’s an artificial entity and as already explained just pushes prices up elsewhere.

You have to pay to roam everywhere else….

It's an argument touted a while back, but there isn't any evidence backing it. Monthly bundles have been increasing in size and falling in price for years.

Incoming calls used to have profit margins of over 90%, and the net wholesale cost has fallen further since then to more or less zero

I had free incoming calls in Europe 16 years ago, and could make outgoing calls for 7 then about 2 pence a minute, though this was by combining other providers, and the 2p was a tariff mistake. Martin Lewis told me it was too complicated for his readers to understand

3 Like Home and O2's My Europe Extra were introduced in early 2007. No roaming cost for 3 customers visiting other 3 networks abroad, since extended to far more countries. Free incoming calls and 25p outgoing calls on the latter, and they weren't losing money.

[Deleted User]

redux said:

simax said:

Undoubtedly the UK networks will now increase their interconnect fees for foreign roamers travelling to the UK.

And we haven’t regressed @M4rtyman ….. Free EU roaming was never free. It was simply paid for via other domestic price increases. The networks were forced to provide free EU roaming at a loss. It’s an artificial entity and as already explained just pushes prices up elsewhere.

You have to pay to roam everywhere else….

It's an argument touted a while back, but there isn't any evidence backing it. Monthly bundles have been increasing in size and falling in price for years.

Incoming calls used to have profit margins of over 90%, and the net wholesale cost has fallen further since then to more or less zero

I had free incoming calls in Europe 16 years ago, and could make outgoing calls for 7 then about 2 pence a minute, though this was by combining other providers, and the 2p was a tariff mistake. Martin Lewis told me it was too complicated for his readers to understand

3 Like Home and O2's My Europe Extra were introduced in early 2007. No roaming cost for 3 customers visiting other 3 networks abroad, since extended to far more countries. Free incoming calls and 25p outgoing calls on the latter, and they weren't losing money.

Simax is talking tosh.

The wholesale rates were heavily regulated in the EEA
Many networks operate in multiple territories e.g Vodafone or have relationships 
It was reciprocal, the networks would gain revenue from incoming roamers 

jnm21

I have been chasing Vodafone to clarify (I even broke Tobi, their bot - he started 'thinking' for about 2 minutes, then started asking for my personal details - I suspect he needs a GDPR course).

From reading the T&Cs, I believe that there are a couple of points (loopholes?) that may aid money saving...

I believe that the events to trigger the £2 are any use of a UK inclusive allowance... sending a text, making a call or using data.

So a couple could tether one phone off the other, using data on one only - cost halved.  The one paying could call or text the second without triggering the £2.  If the second needed to speak to the first, they could send a MMS for 55p to ask them to call.  I do appreciate that this is extreme.

Next Q is WiFi calling - if I enable flight mode before going abroad, could I use WiFi calling (you can turn on WiFi with flight mode on) without triggering the £2?  Could a Smarty SIM in a MiFi be an option?

flaneurs_lobster

jnm21 said:

Next Q is WiFi calling - if I enable flight mode before going abroad, could I use WiFi calling (you can turn on WiFi with flight mode on) without triggering the £2?  Could a Smarty SIM in a MiFi be an option?

All the operators that offer wi-fi calling (that I've checked) state that it will not work when roaming. 

jnm21

gavinbaxter said:

jnm21 said:

Next Q is WiFi calling - if I enable flight mode before going abroad, could I use WiFi calling (you can turn on WiFi with flight mode on) without triggering the £2?  Could a Smarty SIM in a MiFi be an option?

All the operators that offer wi-fi calling (that I've checked) state that it will not work when roaming. 

Does that make sense?  How would the phone know (if you keep flight mode on)?

flaneurs_lobster

jnm21 said:

gavinbaxter said:

jnm21 said:

Next Q is WiFi calling - if I enable flight mode before going abroad, could I use WiFi calling (you can turn on WiFi with flight mode on) without triggering the £2?  Could a Smarty SIM in a MiFi be an option?

All the operators that offer wi-fi calling (that I've checked) state that it will not work when roaming. 

Does that make sense?  How would the phone know (if you keep flight mode on)?

I don't know enough about the protocols that allow wi-fi calling to suggest why this is sensible. Must be something preventing it or anyone who has wi-fi calling enabled would never have to pay roaming charges again. Can't imagine that the teleco's have missed this charging opportunity?

JenB79

jnm21 said:

gavinbaxter said:

jnm21 said:

Next Q is WiFi calling - if I enable flight mode before going abroad, could I use WiFi calling (you can turn on WiFi with flight mode on) without triggering the £2?  Could a Smarty SIM in a MiFi be an option?

All the operators that offer wi-fi calling (that I've checked) state that it will not work when roaming. 

Does that make sense?  How would the phone know (if you keep flight mode on)?

It's simple: wifi calling works when your wifi network has a UK IP address, ie your mobile operator assumes you're in UK. In the past I've managed to get EE wifi calling working overseas free of charge (using airplane mode) by using a VPN app and choosing a UK server.

jnm21

@JenB79 VPN was going to be one of my next Q. 

Sometimes (when I was on Three possibly), the national lottery used to ask if I was in the UK.  So I do wonder if they will be so aggressive in preventing WiFi calling (in case the IP based geolocation is wrong)...

Anyhow, I have sprung for a 2 year VF contract to beat these new charges (for 2 years), but I will be experimenting during that time to see how I can beat them!  I am invigorated that one of my favourite sports is to return!   Fond memories of o2 chosen country Spain! 

jnm21

Just tested WiFi calling with VPN & flight mode on - connected to a UK server it worked... connected to a Spain server... it also worked!

I strongly suspect that the are you roaming detection relies on the mobile network connection!