Contesting a Will as Next-of-Kin

RomfordNavy

PeterE17 said:

From the post 5th August 6:19 pm OP says "one charity was the Nurses" (capitalised) so maybe no medical nurses were involved in anything but care and the alleged pressure came from a charity. 

Absolutely spot on but can't mention exactly who otherwise someone here will start spouting about the board rules again.

RomfordNavy

74jax said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Malthusian said:

RomfordNavy said:

Malthusian said:

What does that have to do with your allegation that hospital nurses (not charity fundraisers) applied pressure to the deceased?

I never said Hospital Nurses, you assumed that.

RomfordNavy said: The now deceased was under pressure from the Nurses to get a Will written, they had asked said friend to chase-up partially completed equity release on a property to cover the cost of having the Will written. [emphasis original]

I'm out, have fun everyone.

.

(I'd hate to offend the OP, but I wonder if English might not be their first language and that that may have contributed to a lot of the apparent confusion around their description of what has happened?  Apologies if I'm mistaken, but almost every aspect of this seems to have needed clarification as to what the OP has meant.)

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

I couldn't work out what it was, but yes, very important words used instead of the other, not understanding certain things and having to go over it again.....

I think you're right and a little more patience is perhaps needed to get the explanations needed. 

Absolutely burried in it at the moment so quickly typing this lot on one screen while dealing with other matters on another screen.  That is part of it, the other part is that this is unwinding further information on a daily basis as I speak to more of those involved.

RomfordNavy

Lets just be clear, nobody is suggesting contesting the will because they want money.  It is simply that, knowing the deceased, we cannot believe they would hand over such a massive chunk of their estate to these end-of-life charities while seemingly disowning their family and closest friends.  At least not unless somehow pressurised into it.

In fact if the family do get the will overturned it may well be that the vast majority does go to charity anyway.  However that would be the charities that we know the deceased supported, I have evidence of those from the deceased phone and media messages.

Robert_McGeddon

Wow. Epic thread. Seems to me that the OP has had a pretty torrid time on the forum having asked a straightforward question. I'll not go into the he said she said stuff.

Major point: IMO it all comes down to whether or not the will was made under duress or while not of sound mind. Two points that I dont think have come up so far:

1 How did the relative who engaged the solicitor who prepared/witnessed the will find him? Was he a family friend? The solicitor who had prepared the earlier will? Or perhaps one recommended by the hospital/hospice?

2 Have you any idea if the solicitor asked the deceased why the radical changes in the new will? It would be a very obvious question to ask and a rational answer would go a long way to proving soundness of mind. I suspect not and through client confidentiality it would not be something the solicitor is likely to divulge freely. Back in a post on 5 August at 9:04PM a “Larke v Nugus request” was mentioned and this remains a possibility, perhaps (at cost) through a contentious probate solicitor. If there was a side letter written it may well turn up during this process.

However, if the will is unchallenged, or challenged and found valid, then the later will should be executed as the deceased intended, however uncomfortable it may prove for family..

Minor point: Funeral costs, professional fees and necessary expenses should be recoverable from the Estate no matter who bore the cost in the first place. It would help if invoices were addressed to the deceased (e.g. solicitor) or the Estate but is not strictly necessary. Theoretically not different to an outsranding credit card bill or water rates bill - but I must say I would be personally be reluctant to fund a wake for a very large gathering.

Dymphna60

@RomfordNavy.
I don’t really want my head bitten off but -
do you think you should take a deep breath and a walk in the park? 

You have been directed to how difficult it is to prove undue influence. 

That coming up with 100 of ‘ Jacks ‘ friends that are willing to say he never said anything in 20 years about wanting to leave money to charities that provide end of life care . searching for others that claim their relatives were pressured into changing wills to
leave money to charity organisations that provided support to them in their final days is just not going to do it . 

The facts are he had no one finically dependent on him . 

He had support from charitable organisations that probably made his last months / weeks better than they would have been without it . 

Do you really really truly want to risk your own Heath and emotional well-being and finances on the tiniest glimmer all on a point of principle so you can give the money to
Save the rabbits or whatever cause your cousin supported in life ? 

I would also step away from this thread . Yes I am aware of the irony of that . 

cymruchris

RomfordNavy said:

cymruchris said:

My dad left an instruction that the presence of the letter should only be revealed and produced in the event of the will being contested. If the will is administered as per his wishes, I imagine the letter will be destroyed. Therefore there is a possibility that a letter exists. There's no harm to double-check if you haven't done so already. I know it exists, as I was here when he gave it to the solicitor, but the person excluded from the will doesn't yet know of its existence. 

Well that is an interesting thought.  If the Solicitor who wrote the Will, but did not list themselves as reserve executor, has a letter of wills how will they ever know that the Will has been contested and to release the letter of wills?

In his case he selected the solicitor to act as executor so unlikely to happen in my case but unsure if it’s a non-solicitor executor - it’s a good point. 

maman

I don't know how contesting a will works out in practice but if it's like a sort of court case wouldn't the first solicitor  who drew up the will be questioned? 🤔

RomfordNavy

Does anyone happen to know if a non-benificary can apply for Letters-of-Administration as the executors have renounced?

Google seems to give conflicting answers.

Thrugelmir

RomfordNavy said:

Does anyone happen to know if a non-benificary can apply for Letters-of-Administration as the executors have renounced?

Google seems to give conflicting answers.

Beneficiaries are able to step in or an application can be made to the court to appoint an administrator. 

Spendless

Flugelhorn said:

thegreenone said:

OP, who witnessed the signing of the new Will, please?  I would be very surprised if hospital staff are permitted to do that and as  far as I am aware, Hospice staff are not allowed to do so either.  Cousin's GP should have visited and made an assessment first.

Also, as someone pointed out earlier, why would your cousin make a hospice a beneficiary when he hadn't even been there?
  
No use to OP now but you can contact a Primary Care Trust to pass on concerns to GPs/hospitals. They are listed on the internet and hopefully you can find a relative that way.  I did this when I was very concerned about my late brother's mental health issues.  They were very helpful.

why would GP be involved in making an assessment before a patient made a will? they don't get involved in mental capacity assessments for that sort of thing - it is down to the lawyers to assure themselves that the person knows what they are doing. 

When someone is approaching end of life the palliative care  team will often mention that they may wish to "tie up any legal matters eg make a will if they haven't already" 

I'm still catching up with this thread, but I mentioned something about this earlier. My son's Uni mate's parent died last year. 12 years earlier he had been in a RTA which had caused him injuries to always need carers from then on (he could still walk/talk) . Uni mate was at our house recently and showed me paperwork relating to his Dad's death, one of them was a report from his GP that logged certain details of appts and dates. Just under a month before he died, there was a date and the comment read 'assessed for capacity to make a will'
No more information, not what the GP's verdict was, so yes it happens I've seen the written evidence of it, but I can't tell you why.