Aircon fails in four year old car days after purchase

BOWFER

Carrot007 said:

With aircon in cars only two things can go wrong.

1. It is turned off by some idiot that thinks this is a good thing. Realy never turn it off ever. you could agrue the manufactufers are at fauklt here for letting it be allowed but hey...

Indeed.
Some more enlightened manufacturers (Renault for one) now make the default setting for aircon as 'ON'
You have to press a button if you want it to go OFF (god knows why you would).

LarryLancaster

An update. The company who sold me the car insisted that since they provided me with a warranty that I should pursue the claim under warranty. So I did - I had to look around at several different garages before I found one that (a) met the warranty company's criteria, (b) sounded like they were talking sense and (c) were prepared to look at a "warranty job".

Fast forward another three weeks, all during which time the car has been sitting in said garage waiting for someone to diagnose the problem - a leaking pump - and for the warranty company to make a decision - guess what. Declined. On the basis that because the fault occurred within the first 30 days of my ownership, the terms and conditions said the claim wasn't eligible as it was considered "normal wear and tear"!

The repair garage have priced a new pump, refill of aircon gas and two hours of labour - at £1500. The pump alone was about £1000, the labour and regas is obviously necessary but doesn't seem out of kilter. So I asked the company who sold me the car to speak to the garage and sort something out. They immediately told me that the garage is trying to fleece me, that the car doesn't need a new pump because it won't be the pump that's leaking, but just a £1 rubber gasket between the pump and connecting pipe that his mate can fix for next to nothing. Besides, I can't expect a four year old car to be working perfectly, and why do I even need air conditioning at the moment as it's coming up to winter? Bear in mind I've already paid £300 in regassing and having people look at the car to get me to this point so I'm not happy at the thought of having to spend an eye watering amount of further money for a car that was sold me with a fault known to the showroom.

The company who sold the car told me they would try to twist the arm of the warranty company to see if they would consider making a "goodwill gesture" so I wouldn't have to pay the full amount, if I decided I needed the pump. How am I supposed to know if I really need a £1000 pump or if a £1 rubber seal will be adequate? I just want the car back with the aircon fixed without leaving me massively out of pocket.

Any further suggestions?

jimjames

LarryLancaster said:

. Besides, I can't expect a four year old car to be working perfectly, and why do I even need air conditioning at the moment as it's coming up to winter? Bear in mind I've already paid £300 in regassing and having people look at the car to get me to this point so I'm not happy at the thought of having to spend an eye watering amount of further money for a car that was sold me with a fault known to the showroom.

Any further suggestions?

Absolute nonsense. I would expect a 4 year old car to be in perfect working condition. I expect my 20 year old car to be working but might give some allowance for age. 4 years old is very new. Air con is of use all through the year, possibly more so in winter for dehumidifying the car. Dealer clearly doesn't want to fix the issue but they should be taking responsibility. You could let them fix it and when it doesn't work they have to fix the real problem. The dealer might be correct about the gasket but from their comments about the age of car and winter I wouldn't bet on it.

I also can't see how the warranty can refuse as wear and tear in first 30 days, so are they really saying that on day 31 the same issue would be covered? I could understand if they said the garage should fix in the first 30 days

LarryLancaster

I thought the same but it's in the small print in the T&C. So effectively the warranty doesn't come into effect and protect until you have owned the car for at least 30 days or driven it a minimum of 1000 miles!

Car is at the garage waiting for a decision on the repair. If I ask them to go ahead I can't remotely see the dealer agreeing to pay the £1500, but if I take it back to the dealer and ask him to get his "mate" to fix it I can't see it being more than a temporary bodge. What to do?

LarryLancaster

Update after speaking to the dealer who I bought the car from. He told me I had bought a four year old car that he had sold "as seen" (that was never claimed at the time) and that his responsibility to me stopped the day I bought it. He says he will not pay a penny to repair the aircon even though he admitted to knowing it had had to be regassed before selling it to me.  He will still try to persuade the warranty company to make a goodwill gesture though I'd have to pay towards that and the fault appears to be outside their Ts and Cs. Or he'll take the car back and refund me minus a (no doubt hefty) depreciation cost. Which I don't want to do as I otherwise like the car. Besides, I thought that I had the right to insist that the dealer fixes a fault that presents on a car within 30 days of purchase?

Why is it so hard to buy a fairly new car that fully works?

Ectophile

The problem is that there are too many cowboy dealers, and it's too easy for them to get away with it.

Most aftermarket warranties aren't worth the paper they are written on. They exclude everything that is likely to go wrong. They are there to distract you from your legal rights against the dealer.

Cars sold by dealers to personal customers are not "as seen". You have a bunch of legal rights as a consumer.

Grumpy_chap

LarryLancaster said:

he admitted to knowing it had had to be regassed before selling it to me.  

How did he make that admission?  Verbally or in writing / email?

You have rights to reject a car for faults present or developing at the time of purchase.  A Dealer cannot hide behind "sold as seen". 
Not every fault would be grounds for rejection and I wonder where faulty aircon sits on that - faulty aircon does not fundamentally prevent the car from doing the job that a car has to do (transport from A to .  An aircon regass may even be deemed a consumable / maintenance item, but not a replacement pump.
Rights to reject are described further here:
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/

Given the attitude of the Dealer, enforcing rights for the Dealer to refund the car or rectify the air con may be easier said than done.  Did you pay for any of the car on credit?  The finance company may have more leverage than you do.

LarryLancaster said:

I thought the same but it's in the small print in the T&C. So effectively the warranty doesn't come into effect and protect until you have owned the car for at least 30 days or driven it a minimum of 1000 miles!

This does make some sense. 
Many aftermarket warranties rely on the selling Dealer doing an inspection and declaring the car to be in good order.  Then the Dealer pays for the warranty (insurance premium) and the warranty covers any defects arising subsequently (and within the remit covered by the warranty scope).
The 30-day / 1k miles delay covers the warranty company against a Dealer being opportunistic in the declaration of the car's condition (with the inference, presumably, being that the Dealer fixes anything that arises in that time period).

LarryLancaster said:

How am I supposed to know if I really need a £1000 pump or if a £1 rubber seal will be adequate? 

Why not do the £1 fix?  If it works, happy days?
If it does not work, then the £1k fix is not wasted.

k3lvc

Haven't seen anyone mention yet - is there any finance interest in the car i.e. paid (at least part) by credit card or took out car finance with the dealer - this would give you another option to pursue ?

Does the dealer have reasonable premises/stockholding/longevity or is he likely to close/rebrand of you start chasing hard and he's financially at risk

You mentioned early on that you'd searched for the car for a long time - is it something rare/worthwhile that you're going to keep and therefore just bite the bullet as part of ownership costs ?

happyc84

Carrot007 said:

With aircon in cars only two things can go wrong.

1. It is turned off by some idiot that thinks this is a good thing. Realy never turn it off ever. you could agrue the manufactufers are at fauklt here for letting it be allowed but hey...

2. Something damaged a pipe. Now this is what happed to me. One day working fine. Then nothing. A regas will not help. (do they even do the no improvement no cost ones anymore, anyway...) Such happens. The car is old enough for it to not be worth it. (Still better than whatever oddness was in my old car where it would not provide heat obn front blowers, just on footwell after 30 mins! *yes I got it looked at, twice, they asked for no money and said go elsewhere! (again not worth it!))

add a 3rd option which happened to me. Failed resistor on the fan. thought it was air-con. This happened just as the 3 year from new  warranty finished - Nissan X-trail. Cost £200 from locally independent rather than main dealer who just didn't want to bother.
New resistor fitted, fan and air con working again. I did go down the air-conditioning fault route but the independent garage didn't do an unnecessary re-gas. 

LarryLancaster

To answer above questions:

1. Aircon fault must have been present at purchase. I noticed a funny hissing noise started coming from the vents a few days after buying the car and mentioned it to the dealer (I returned the car a few days after purchase for him to respray the bumper as it had a scrape on it; I agreed to do that at my expense). A few days later the aircon stopped blowing cold. So I took it to a nearby garage to regas it, and the garage said, that's funny, we had this car in a few weeks ago, the dealer took it to us as the gas was low. I then spoke to the dealer about getting what was obviously a slow leak and he admitted he'd done that.

2. I paid for the car in cash (bank transfer) from personal savings.

3. The £1 fix for a new seal at the opening of the pump also requires a few hours of work plus regassing which still amounts to several hundred pounds. If it fails, that's money wasted when I could have got a new pump which I would still have to pay for, plus further mechanic time and yet more regassing. I'm not a mechanic so have no idea which is the correct repair. And the dealer is refusing to pay a penny, saying that's what he sold me the warranty to cover, and if the warranty turns out not to cover it then I'm on my own. Whichever repair I get done, as things stands I will obviously have to pay the garage and the dealar will refuse to contribute anything.

4. Dealer is currently advertising up to a dozen cars. He said if I returned the car he would knock off however much he liked for the cost of my ownership and glog it at auction. I've hardly driven it since purchase and it's been sitting in a garage the last few weeks but I can't imagine being offered a fair price for it if I reject it.

5. The model is quite popular but limited availability hence why it took a little while to find one.

6. Surely a broken fan resistor wouldn't cause gas levels to drop over a few weeks?