Chargeback or not?

holz81

Hi There - having been stung once already with a reversed chargeback in the past, I am now in a position where I may need to request another chargeback and would appreciate some advice. 

Had a holiday booked trough an online agent, due to depart on 22 Jul 2021. It was cancelled. A refund credit note was automatically issued, with the option to request a cash refund if that was preferred. The travel agent was very vague and said:

"If we do not hear from you, your booking will be automatically administered, and a refund credit note will be issued no later than 72 hours prior to your departure date allowing you to rebook your holiday when you feel comfortable. The refund credit note does not replace your entitled refund and should you not wish to rebook your holiday, we will issue a cash refund at a later date."

I did not want the credit note, so as soon as it was issued, I requested a proper refund and asked when I would receive it, quoting that guidance that refunds should be made within 14 days. They travel agent replied to say that they were exceptionally busy and the 14 day guidance didn't apply in these exceptional times. The refund would be ready when it is ready, not giving me any details of exactly when.

Tomorrow will be 14 days from planned departure. No refund yet. Should I raise a chargeback tomorrow with my credit card company?

I'm worried by the whole process, as last time I did raise a charge back, it got reversed as I had requested it past the 120 day deadline. (stupidly, I had been patient with the travel agent and tried to resolve the issue myself, not knowing about the time limit). So, if I am going to raise the chargeback, I want to do it ASAP, but I don't want the travel agent to dispute it, because I didn't give them long enough to refund me. 

I hope that makes sense, if not, please let me know any further info you would need in order to be able to advise me.

Thanks in advance!!

Sandtree

there is a bit gap between 14 days and 120 days... its up to you if you want to given them some grace or go straight in with a chargeback... also depends if tis an agency you want to use in the future or not etc.

eskbanker

holz81 said:

I did not want the credit note, so as soon as it was issued, I requested a proper refund and asked when I would receive it, quoting that guidance that refunds should be made within 14 days. They travel agent replied to say that they were exceptionally busy and the 14 day guidance didn't apply in these exceptional times. The refund would be ready when it is ready, not giving me any details of exactly when.

Tomorrow will be 14 days from planned departure. No refund yet. Should I raise a chargeback tomorrow with my credit card company?

The 14 day refund window (a) isn't 'guidance' but a legal obligation, and (b) starts from the date of cancellation, not the planned departure date:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/634/regulation/14/made

Alan_Bowen

I agree that 14 days is enshrined in law but I would be tempted to give them a little extra time as many online agencies have very few staff to process refunds. Frankly on line agents may not be the way to book right now, humans are much easier to deal with than a computer. I think you will find if they have offered a refund the card issuer will be reluctant to get involved at this stage anyway

eskbanker

While I agree that allowing a bit more than 14 days might be considered reasonable, the stalling tactics adopted thus far aren't encouraging....

The fact that the agent has already breached its legal obligations should mean that the card company isn't in a position to refuse a chargeback claim, as the agent's offer of a refund at an unspecified future date doesn't mitigate that (timebound) liability - it remains a possibility that the agent might dispute the chargeback, and that the card company then sides with them, but in itself that shouldn't be a reason not to go ahead and raise it, unless there's any reason to believe that doing so later would be more fruitful.

OP - which company is it?  Does a search of existing threads on this board offer any insight into the agent's refunding practices?

MattMattMattUK

My opinion would be to give them a bit longer, possibly a couple of weeks longer. I am pretty sure, as it has happened to others on here, that the chargeback will be denied as you have already received the credit vouchers as part of the refund. A chargeback or S75 would be overkill at the moment, use it when you are sure the normal process has failed as you can only use chargeback once per transaction, so if you get declined now on the basis that they have issued a credit voucher you cannot the use it again when they fail to turn that into cash. 

bagand96

Whilst everyone can agree that 14 days is what the law says, in practice it is taking longer at the moment for many companies. 

The bank might not be keen to process a chargeback, as the agent isn’t refusing a refund, just failing to do it promptly. Chargeback is a essentially a voluntary scheme with no legal requirement. 

You may have more luck strong-arming your bank for a Section 75 claim if you paid by credit card. Section 75 is law that makes the bank jointly liable, so it would be harder for them to argue.  However, I still think they would stall you given that the agent is saying a refund will happen. 

eskbanker

bagand96 said:

Whilst everyone can agree that 14 days is what the law says, in practice it is taking longer at the moment for many companies.

Indeed, but that doesn't change the rules or weaken chargeback rights as such.

bagand96 said:

The bank might not be keen to process a chargeback, as the agent isn’t refusing a refund, just failing to do it promptly.

As above, the agent is already in breach of contract by virtue of the 14 days having elapsed, so no action after that can actually remedy that breach as such.  If they were saying 'sorry, we can't meet 14 days but will hit 28 days instead' then that might be seen as a reasonable compromise, but OP suggests that they're unwilling to commit to any timescale.

bagand96 said:

Chargeback is a essentially a voluntary scheme with no legal requirement.

While it's not legislative, any merchant accepting major scheme payment cards has to accept the rules of those schemes, which include chargeback, so it isn't voluntary in any meaningful sense once they've made that decision.

Edit: the same applies to card companies issuing such cards, which is probably more relevant to the point you were making!

bagand96 said:

You may have more luck strong-arming your bank for a Section 75 claim if you paid by credit card. Section 75 is law that makes the bank jointly liable, so it would be harder for them to argue.  However, I still think they would stall you given that the agent is saying a refund will happen. 

I'd take the opposite view - bearing in mind that card companies reimburse s75 claims from their own pockets, while chargebacks are recovered from the merchant, I'd say that the bank would be less likely to settle a s75 claim!


Having said all of that, I'm not necessarily advocating that OP should go wading in with a chargeback at the first opportunity, but just highlighting that in my opinion the conditions are already in place for doing so, provided it's made clear that the reason is specifically failure to meet its legal obligation to "provide the traveller with a full refund of any payments made for the package" within the 14 days.

Butts

I wonder if it's Last Minute.com ?

@holz81 has not responded to a request for the identity of the miscreant as of yet.

With this information the advice may be easier to proffer based on their previous performance in respect of these matters.

CKhalvashi

eskbanker said:

bagand96 said:

Whilst everyone can agree that 14 days is what the law says, in practice it is taking longer at the moment for many companies.

Indeed, but that doesn't change the rules or weaken chargeback rights as such.

bagand96 said:

The bank might not be keen to process a chargeback, as the agent isn’t refusing a refund, just failing to do it promptly.

As above, the agent is already in breach of contract by virtue of the 14 days having elapsed, so no action after that can actually remedy that breach as such.  If they were saying 'sorry, we can't meet 14 days but will hit 28 days instead' then that might be seen as a reasonable compromise, but OP suggests that they're unwilling to commit to any timescale.

bagand96 said:

Chargeback is a essentially a voluntary scheme with no legal requirement.

While it's not legislative, any merchant accepting major scheme payment cards has to accept the rules of those schemes, which include chargeback, so it isn't voluntary in any meaningful sense once they've made that decision.

bagand96 said:

You may have more luck strong-arming your bank for a Section 75 claim if you paid by credit card. Section 75 is law that makes the bank jointly liable, so it would be harder for them to argue.  However, I still think they would stall you given that the agent is saying a refund will happen. 

I'd take the opposite view - bearing in mind that card companies reimburse s75 claims from their own pockets, while chargebacks are recovered from the merchant, I'd say that the bank would be less likely to settle a s75 claim!


Having said all of that, I'm not necessarily advocating that OP should go wading in with a chargeback at the first opportunity, but just highlighting that in my opinion the conditions are already in place for doing so, provided it's made clear that the reason is specifically failure to meet its legal obligation to "provide the traveller with a full refund of any payments made for the package" within the 14 days.

Very much indeed. Having been messed around by a certain airline last year, I requested a S75 refund on day 8 last year when the airline stated they require up to 6 months to refund, which a CC issuer dealt with through the Chargeback system.

When the airline attempted to reclaim the money (allegedly as they hadn't been given a chance to refund), the CC issuer were made aware that legal action would be taken without further reference to them under S75 if any charge re-appeared, largely as it's easier to take a British bank to court over a foreign (non-EU) airline. That was the last I heard of the matter.

This information may be relevant to the OP as it does highlight that some issuers will run a S75 claim as a Chargeback at first.

In the case of a holiday, 14 days is the legislation. Allowing a little longer would be prudent if the company is cooperating, however isn't a requirement. 120 days would possibly push the transaction out of the Chargeback timescales, which is why it is important to start the action far before this. I'd personally consider 30-ish days to be reasonable at the moment after speaking to the company several times and reminding them of their legal requirements, however there is no legal basis for this.