Premier Property Lawyers - can any one offer any advice pls?

MrsBrush

We are in the middle of moving house - selling and buying. We have a brilliant independent agency for the sale, and we are in the process of buying through Purple Bricks. The property itself is exactly what we are looking for, in the right place, so we are very reluctant to pull out. To be fair, all of the pre-sale stuff was ok.

So, offer accepted on the house we want to buy at the end of May.

Despite the vendor issuing their instructions to PPL within 2-3 days (certainly within a week of the offer being accepted), the conveyancers on the vendors side have finally been in touch with mine to start the process - but as of Friday afternoon (30th July), have still failed to share the information pack so that legal enquiries can commence - 2 very long and frustrating months of faffing and absolutely no action! Meanwhile, my buyer and their buyers are gearing up for exchange and we are not yet on the starting block

There are no finances to deal with, as already done. My mortgage offer was done by 16th June, and both my buyer and the vendor will be making cash purchases. Interestingly, the vendor is using a different solicitor for his purchase - and he is intending to move into rented short term as he didn't want to hold the sale up while he looked for a new house. He has now found one, and his new property needs work - so to all intents the vendor of the house I am buying is at the top of the chain.

As I am aware, the conveyancers for the vendors wont speak to us directly, so we are having to go via Purple Bricks post sales team for any information. My agent has been trying to speak to them daily, and isn't getting very far either. These are the stock, default answers:

• "The national average to complete is 16-20 weeks" (yes, we know. But as we are now at week 9, and we haven't yet got started - what is a realistic timeline? This has never been confirmed, even though all parties agreed to target August from the outset)
• "Your solicitor will be able to give you a timescale" (which he has - he thinks it could now be at completion within 4-5 weeks PROVIDED that PPL pull their fingers out of orifices, but as he is a lawyer not a crystal ball reader, without PPL communicating with him it is impossible to say)
• "the forms were sent on 16th July" (but have not been received, so whether these have been sent by carrier pigeon, a letter stuck to a snail's back or whatever, my solicitor hasn't received them. So clearly, someone hasn't told the truth!)

Overall, this is just as annoying as it is unhelpful, so PB have their part to play in this - it is their terrible recommendation of the worst conveyancing "service" known to man that started this saga, and they are taking absolutely no responsibility. The poor vendors are also pulling hair out as their clients, because the PPL conveyancers don't appear to want to speak to them either! The whole chain was supposed to be completing and moving by the end of August!

On a personal level I would have sacked PPL weeks ago, but this isn't my call to make. Unfortunately!

Has anyone had any experience of buying a house via Purple Bricks and particularly with conveyancing via Premier Property Services?

If so, is this not very good customer service normal - I guess PPL are going with the 'pile high, sell cheap, and don't care about quality' model!

More importantly, what can we do to light some large bonfires under a few bottoms to get this moving before my buyer loses patience and I lose my sale??

TBagpuss

You can ask your solicitor to chase them, unfortunately however short of threatening to pull out there isn't  huge amount you can do.

You an also chase the agents to put pressure on both the seller and their conveyancers. PPL are a conveyancing factory who work using case management software - it is possible that there is something they need from the seller and that they can't progress at all until they get it because 'computer says no' .



 

mcpitman

Your solicitor will know the escalation route to get action from PPL. I doubt they are actually putting the effort in to contact them and gain some traction. Just emailing or calling is not sufficient effort in these circumstances on your solicitors behalf.

Get your solicitors "Head of Legal Practice"/Senior Partner to contact PPL's "HOLP" - they will definitely know each other and have direct routes. Escalate that way and you will get results within hours not days.

PB won't do much unless it costs them a transaction.

On the bright side I have used and successfully completed with PPL historically in extremely short timescales. As the poster above mentions, you may need to "game the system" and find out precisely what is holding up the transaction at PPL's end.

All in, many conveyancing firms stopped doing any works during June to ensure their clients tied to that deadline got processed in time, they will be doing the same now for any "pre-September" completions, so you may get progress quickly in short order (fingers crossed for you).

ele_91

We used PPL for sale and purchase and they were great, very quick. We were ready to complete within 6 weeks. They are a conveyancing ‘factory’ meaning their processes are very efficient.

Sounds to me like your vendor has decided to tie his purchase in with this sale and is slowing it down.

Irishpearce26

I have used PPL twice for my purchase and sale and purchase and both times they have been fantastic, efficient and their case management portal allows you to see where you are in the process and what has been done. Could be the delay is in the form of the vendor?

AskAsk

we sold a flat just over a year ago and our estate agent, bairstow eves, recommended Premier Property Lawyers to the buyer as they get commission from the solicitors for referrals.  PPL was really bad and delayed the process.  They wouldn't agree a completion date until they had received the money from the buyer's mortgage lender and we said we can't agree an exchange date unless we have a completion date.

the estate agent eventually got them to agree a completion date but it was hard work.  then they didn't notify the freeholder, which was the council, after the sale had completed.  a year later the council sent us service charges and refused to transfer the lease to the new owner as PPL had not sent in the transfer form.

it took them several months to finally do their job and we haven't heard from the council, so i can only assume that the lease ownership has now been transferred.

PPL also trade under another name, my home move.

Octothorpe

We've had to get the estate agent for PBs to complain to the head of their company to get ball moving.

There should be an actual PB EA that you can speak to.

mcpitman

Octothorpe said:

There should be an actual PB EA that you can speak to.

There is, they are called "Territory Owners", the ones that listed the property and earn commission when it completes.

Alternatively known as "LPE's" "Local Property Experts"

78sk

I am currently using PPL as a FTB and they have been fantastic. Initially started my purchase with one of their sister companies but communication with the spirit world would have been easier - so I switched to PPL on EA's recommendation. So glad I did. 

Tiglet2

MrsBrush said:

So, offer accepted on the house we want to buy at the end of May.

Despite the vendor issuing their instructions to PPL within 2-3 days (certainly within a week of the offer being accepted), the conveyancers on the vendors side have finally been in touch with mine to start the process - but as of Friday afternoon (30th July), have still failed to share the information pack so that legal enquiries can commence 

 Interestingly, the vendor is using a different solicitor for his purchase - and he is intending to move into rented short term as he didn't want to hold the sale up while he looked for a new house. He has now found one, and his new property needs work 

As I am aware, the conveyancers for the vendors wont speak to us directly, so we are having to go via Purple Bricks post sales team for any information. My agent has been trying to speak to them daily, and isn't getting very far either. These are the stock, default answers:

• "The national average to complete is 16-20 weeks" (yes, we know. But as we are now at week 9, and we haven't yet got started - what is a realistic timeline? This has never been confirmed, even though all parties agreed to target August from the outset)
• "Your solicitor will be able to give you a timescale" (which he has - he thinks it could now be at completion within 4-5 weeks PROVIDED that PPL pull their fingers out of orifices, but as he is a lawyer not a crystal ball reader, without PPL communicating with him it is impossible to say)
• "the forms were sent on 16th July" (but have not been received, so whether these have been sent by carrier pigeon, a letter stuck to a snail's back or whatever, my solicitor hasn't received them. So clearly, someone hasn't told the truth!)

The whole chain was supposed to be completing and moving by the end of August!

It does sound as though there have been delays in processing paperwork, however consider this:

If the vendor instructed PPL at the beginning of June, it is highly likely that PPL would have sent out the initial pack to the vendor and then waited until the Stamp Duty Deadline was over before looking at the file again.  Those transactions completing by the end of June would have taken priority - yours was never going to meet that deadline.

After 30th June, PPL may have checked file and hopefully the forms that the vendor needed to complete, sign and return to them would be sitting on said file.  PPL would also need to do AML checks and the vendor would need to pay some upfront monies before the solicitor starts any work.

Are you sure that the vendor is selling to you independently of the purchase?  My experience is that they may say they will do this, but the reality of moving out into temporary accommodation and having to source storage for their furniture might make them change their minds and try to tie in the purchase with the sale.  In this case, PPL are not handling the purchase and will have to liaise with another solicitor, creating another link in the chain.  There could even be a further onward purchase (or two) beyond that.

PPL will not send out the draft contract pack without half of the information needed to go in the pack.  It sounds like you are purchasing a leasehold property (you refer to information pack).  The vendor would have had to pay their freeholder/management company for the pack.  The pack would be sent to the vendor's solicitor, who then sends it to your solicitor.  Bear in mind that freeholders/management companies can be slow to action this and fees would need to be paid upfront.

While you say you are at week 9, your solicitor will only be able to start the work on your transaction once he has sight of the draft contract pack.  If that has only just been received, then the 'countdown' has only just begun.  Frustrating for you I'm sure, but the reality is that every conveyancing instruction can only count from receipt of the draft contract pack, not from when your offer or your instruction was received.

The 'stock' answers you have received are ultimately the only ones they can give at the moment.  If work has barely begun, then your solicitor does not have enough information as yet to make an informed timescale and they do not like to commit any promises they may not be able to keep.

I have experience of using PPL on a personal level and a professional level.  To be honest it does depend on the conveyancer allocated.  They can be very particular - if computer says no, they won't budge.  So, if the vendor has failed to do something and that box hasn't been ticked, it could be the reason for the delay, if not the stamp duty saga.

MrsBrush

Thank you all for your help so far.

Just to clarify, the house we are buying is 100% definitely freehold, so I have probably used the wrong technical terminology!  I haven't bought or sold for 20 years, so I have no idea what the process is, and I have to rely on my agent and solicitor. I chose to use people who I knew could hand hold a bit. The mortgage is being ported, and we had a mortgage offer through very quickly (within 2 weeks) and we were told it would be slower than usual. Similar with my solicitors - he has been very on the ball and although we knew it might take a bit longer, their view was that it would only add a couple of weeks at the worst assuming everyone is doing what they are supposed to.  

Obviously we were aware of the stamp duty stuff, but that was never my motivation for moving - I need to move closer to my elderly parents as soon as possible as they are both in need of my help. We were then burgled in Nov 2019, when we were in the early stages of the listing process, and then the lockdown in March meant that last year was totally out of the question. That situation has been stressful enough, not least because it is currently a 3 hour round trip just to pop in and help my parents with the basics - not easy when we both work full time.

I am hugely frustrated by the entire process - I don't mind the wait particularly, but I do hate it when companies are not transparent in what they do and fail to communicate when it would save so much trouble if they did a tiny bit better. 

What I do know is that the vendor is an older person, and they have not bought or sold a property in 40 years. I suspect that this is a large part of the problem, but I also suspect that neither PB or PPL are helping to guide him through in any way, shape or form either. I know that is not what they do, but because of the very slick marketing and low pricing it probably isn't clear what you don't get when you use this route. This is a huge problem, where people don't know what they don't know (I certainly didn't), especially where there is a chain involved. I had no idea that a factory style conveyancing system was even possible, let alone that people are systematically routed that way when it is clearly not in their interests. Tech savvy people and those who are 'in the know' yes, I agree it makes sense. But for everyone else, particularly where there is a chain, it is probably the wrong answer. And in this case, why were PB so insistent that we give them a preferred completion date, which I had to do before I could event submit the offer -  when they have no intention of helping their vendors get there? 

So, from what I can see - PPL did not make contact with the vendor at all until early July, and when they did, only sent the basic forms to him. Meanwhile, I had the AML form through from PB within 3-4 days of the offer being accepted - was turned round in a day because I already had agreement in principle and a firm offer on my house - so it was only when my solicitor advised in early July that he was well advanced with the sale and couldn't make a start on the purchase that we realised we had an issue. Seems as though the sellers forms needed to make up the contract were sent back to PPL by the vendor in mid July. It is possible that something is / was missing - but who knows? As PPL don't seem to be communicating with him either, we could still be in this position at Christmas! On the up-side, the vendor is using a separate solicitor for his purchase, and the agent has been in contact with mine to verify the offer an do whatever else it is they do (PB have not participated in this at all apparently), so i suspect that his purchasing solicitor can help to move things along. They are very much separate, as he has said his new place needs a fair bit of work, he has already found a rental to move into and half arranged for his stuff to go into storage - which obviously wont be confirmed until we have dates. Our searches have been requested, and are due back this week, but we cant proceed without the information coming to my solicitor from PPL.

So, in many ways, yes, will wait until everything is done, but my frustration is more about the awful lack of any clarity about any of the delays - which are not being shared with the professionals in other parts of the chain either. I don't care if they don't tell me - that is why I have employed the best agent and solicitor I could find! If is was because of a chain needing to be completed or the vendor not having information, that is one thing. But companies sitting on things for weeks, not chasing if things are missing and not giving any reasons for delays (or actually doing anything at all) is quite another.