Solar panels questions

Muttleythefrog

Rosa_Damascena said:

Deleted_User said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yes!! 

"Fabric First".  If and when it can be cost effective to self-generate, the house is already using the least amount of energy possible.  

Wisest use of funds.  

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

£400 per annum, £33 per month on all heating, hot water, cooking, electrical usage?

If so, why do you need to reduce this further? There's a law of diminishing returns where it gets harder/more expensive to make further savings - that's when you say that it's enough, and just pay for the remaining usage.

Perhaps look at 100% renewable energy tariffs if you're not already.

Yes - that is correct (gas and electricity) and I am with octopus on renewables already !

I do get £145 discount (Warm Homes)

I had to Google this to make sure I wasn't missing out (I'm not). If you qualify, how can you possibly afford to invest in solar panels upfront knowing that its going to take decades to break even? 

Probably got sufficient savings... a few thousand. I bought Solar PV system when eligible for £140 WHD. But in their case it wouldn't likely make any financial sense... but I'm not sure it is the financial aspect they're interested in... I'm still confused.

[Deleted User]

Muttleythefrog said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

Deleted_User said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yes!! 

"Fabric First".  If and when it can be cost effective to self-generate, the house is already using the least amount of energy possible.  

Wisest use of funds.  

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

£400 per annum, £33 per month on all heating, hot water, cooking, electrical usage?

If so, why do you need to reduce this further? There's a law of diminishing returns where it gets harder/more expensive to make further savings - that's when you say that it's enough, and just pay for the remaining usage.

Perhaps look at 100% renewable energy tariffs if you're not already.

Yes - that is correct (gas and electricity) and I am with octopus on renewables already !

I do get £145 discount (Warm Homes)

I had to Google this to make sure I wasn't missing out (I'm not). If you qualify, how can you possibly afford to invest in solar panels upfront knowing that its going to take decades to break even? 

Probably got sufficient savings... a few thousand. I bought Solar PV system when eligible for £140 WHD. But in their case it wouldn't likely make any financial sense... but I'm not sure it is the financial aspect they're interested in... I'm still confused.

My reasons for ny interest are mainly for the good of the environment !

Muttleythefrog

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

Deleted_User said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yes!! 

"Fabric First".  If and when it can be cost effective to self-generate, the house is already using the least amount of energy possible.  

Wisest use of funds.  

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

£400 per annum, £33 per month on all heating, hot water, cooking, electrical usage?

If so, why do you need to reduce this further? There's a law of diminishing returns where it gets harder/more expensive to make further savings - that's when you say that it's enough, and just pay for the remaining usage.

Perhaps look at 100% renewable energy tariffs if you're not already.

Yes - that is correct (gas and electricity) and I am with octopus on renewables already !

I do get £145 discount (Warm Homes)

I had to Google this to make sure I wasn't missing out (I'm not). If you qualify, how can you possibly afford to invest in solar panels upfront knowing that its going to take decades to break even? 

Probably got sufficient savings... a few thousand. I bought Solar PV system when eligible for £140 WHD. But in their case it wouldn't likely make any financial sense... but I'm not sure it is the financial aspect they're interested in... I'm still confused.

My reasons for ny interest are mainly for the good of the environment !

I see.... well.... to be honest... I think there's minimal benefit likely in this case over time... it'd be small scale and far from optimal in generation efficiency... while as others have pointed out.. there are environmentally negative impacts in some respects to the products used and their creation which have to be considered from a purist perspective. To be honest in effect I'd say you'd be investing your efforts and money to largely subsidise energy providers' supply of green energy. I wonder if there are opportunities out there for investment in renewable generation (or some other environmentally conscious endeavour/business) where the benefits might be better realised....both financially and in terms of green credentials. I'd be surprised if opportunities don't exist out there.. crowdfunded projects etc... but this is where I'd have to defer to other members. 

[Deleted User]

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

Deleted_User said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yes!! 

"Fabric First".  If and when it can be cost effective to self-generate, the house is already using the least amount of energy possible.  

Wisest use of funds.  

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

£400 per annum, £33 per month on all heating, hot water, cooking, electrical usage?

If so, why do you need to reduce this further? There's a law of diminishing returns where it gets harder/more expensive to make further savings - that's when you say that it's enough, and just pay for the remaining usage.

Perhaps look at 100% renewable energy tariffs if you're not already.

Yes - that is correct (gas and electricity) and I am with octopus on renewables already !

I do get £145 discount (Warm Homes)

I had to Google this to make sure I wasn't missing out (I'm not). If you qualify, how can you possibly afford to invest in solar panels upfront knowing that its going to take decades to break even? 

Probably got sufficient savings... a few thousand. I bought Solar PV system when eligible for £140 WHD. But in their case it wouldn't likely make any financial sense... but I'm not sure it is the financial aspect they're interested in... I'm still confused.

My reasons for ny interest are mainly for the good of the environment !

I see.... well.... to be honest... I think there's minimal benefit likely in this case over time... it'd be small scale and far from optimal in generation efficiency... while as others have pointed out.. there are environmentally negative impacts in some respects to the products used and their creation which have to be considered from a purist perspective. To be honest in effect I'd say you'd be investing your efforts and money to largely subsidise energy providers' supply of green energy. I wonder if there are opportunities out there for investment in renewable generation (or some other environmentally conscious endeavour/business) where the benefits might be better realised....both financially and in terms of green credentials. I'd be surprised if opportunities don't exist out there.. crowdfunded projects etc... but this is where I'd have to defer to other members. 

There's also a bit of "I would like to be self sufficient" at least during daylight hours - and free from future power fluctuations as far as the grid is concerned (which I am convinced is going to be necessary,) when more people start charging their EV's (the grid is not robust enough to cope at the moment)...

In an ideal world - I would have a great big stonking battery, charged from panels - to power my world 24/7 but the cost would, presumably be too great ?

FreeBear

Deleted_User said: In an ideal world - I would have a great big stonking battery, charged from panels - to power my world 24/7 but the cost would, presumably be too great ?

A timely bit of news - https://news.cfa.vic.gov.au/firefighters-bring-large-battery-fire-near-geelong-under-control

Took crews four days to bring the fire under control...

Muttleythefrog

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

Deleted_User said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yes!! 

"Fabric First".  If and when it can be cost effective to self-generate, the house is already using the least amount of energy possible.  

Wisest use of funds.  

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

£400 per annum, £33 per month on all heating, hot water, cooking, electrical usage?

If so, why do you need to reduce this further? There's a law of diminishing returns where it gets harder/more expensive to make further savings - that's when you say that it's enough, and just pay for the remaining usage.

Perhaps look at 100% renewable energy tariffs if you're not already.

Yes - that is correct (gas and electricity) and I am with octopus on renewables already !

I do get £145 discount (Warm Homes)

I had to Google this to make sure I wasn't missing out (I'm not). If you qualify, how can you possibly afford to invest in solar panels upfront knowing that its going to take decades to break even? 

Probably got sufficient savings... a few thousand. I bought Solar PV system when eligible for £140 WHD. But in their case it wouldn't likely make any financial sense... but I'm not sure it is the financial aspect they're interested in... I'm still confused.

My reasons for ny interest are mainly for the good of the environment !

I see.... well.... to be honest... I think there's minimal benefit likely in this case over time... it'd be small scale and far from optimal in generation efficiency... while as others have pointed out.. there are environmentally negative impacts in some respects to the products used and their creation which have to be considered from a purist perspective. To be honest in effect I'd say you'd be investing your efforts and money to largely subsidise energy providers' supply of green energy. I wonder if there are opportunities out there for investment in renewable generation (or some other environmentally conscious endeavour/business) where the benefits might be better realised....both financially and in terms of green credentials. I'd be surprised if opportunities don't exist out there.. crowdfunded projects etc... but this is where I'd have to defer to other members. 

There's also a bit of "I would like to be self sufficient" at least during daylight hours - and free from future power fluctuations as far as the grid is concerned (which I am convinced is going to be necessary,) when more people start charging their EV's (the grid is not robust enough to cope at the moment)...

In an ideal world - I would have a great big stonking battery, charged from panels - to power my world 24/7 but the cost would, presumably be too great ?

Yep I think too costly... all considered and what you're trying to achieve... it doesn't strike me as being a wise idea. Orientation and size of system obviously are significant factors in how much generation you get... but realistically I'm think you would in terms of self sufficiency and how much you typically use being low... I'd say you'd be self sufficient to a respectable level for significant chunks of spring and summer during the main part of the day. Battery tech is going to be pricey and of limited use for the fact that when you place largest demand on that stored electricity it will be around times when actually little is produced to store (as an idea on winter day my 4kWp system might generate 1 or less kWh yet household consumption typically 10kWh a day).

I wouldn't worry about the grid... not your problem to solve... and actually your inverter (converts the output of your panel arrays into standard grid specification for use) would need a small input from grid to function. There must be better things to look at for self sufficiency and green.... others would be better to advise on investments... but perhaps think about self production of food... get allotment etc... cut meat out of diet if you already don't. There must be opportunities out there that involve less cost but for better return in the manner you intend. I think if we were sat here 10 years ago the equation would be a lot different because you'd get good financial returns from FITs that you could then use for other green endeavours on top of the green electricity production consideration.

Apodemus

If the OP's total annual energy cost really is only £400 (and I find that hard to comprehend, unless heating and hot water is by free wood fuel), then that comes to roughly 6kWh per day, so the amount of battery back-up needed to cope with grid fluctuations wouldn't need to be huge.  It wouldn't necessarily be financially worth it and it most likely wouldn't reduce the OP's carbon footprint.  I have a 1kW UPS that would easily cover a couple of hours of the OPs average annual consumption of 250 watts per hour!

[Deleted User]

Apodemus said:

If the OP's total annual energy cost really is only £400 (and I find that hard to comprehend, unless heating and hot water is by free wood fuel), then that comes to roughly 6kWh per day, so the amount of battery back-up needed to cope with grid fluctuations wouldn't need to be huge.  It wouldn't necessarily be financially worth it and it most likely wouldn't reduce the OP's carbon footprint.  I have a 1kW UPS that would easily cover a couple of hours of the OPs average annual consumption of 250 watts per hour!

It Is only £400 pa dual fuel
I don't understand how some bills are £1000+
We are not miserly and have a full gas CH system which we run when it gets cold (15 degrees or so) we don't leave it running 24/7 as some do
We have an electric oven and hobs
We have a fridge freezer 

Muttleythefrog

Deleted_User said:

Apodemus said:

If the OP's total annual energy cost really is only £400 (and I find that hard to comprehend, unless heating and hot water is by free wood fuel), then that comes to roughly 6kWh per day, so the amount of battery back-up needed to cope with grid fluctuations wouldn't need to be huge.  It wouldn't necessarily be financially worth it and it most likely wouldn't reduce the OP's carbon footprint.  I have a 1kW UPS that would easily cover a couple of hours of the OPs average annual consumption of 250 watts per hour!

It Is only £400 pa dual fuel
I don't understand how some bills are £1000+
We are not miserly and have a full gas CH system which we run when it gets cold (15 degrees or so) we don't leave it running 24/7 as some do
We have an electric oven and hobs
We have a fridge freezer 

You are doing well... we'd struggle to match that... our bill is double yours basically and we do get free electricity with solar PV system and I would say lifestyle is miserly although also to factor in we are almost exclusively housebound and so running things like computers most the day. I'd say you are doing remarkably well and especially if more than one of you. I imagine that in domestic setting big drivers of difference are those things which require significant power over longer periods (the sort of things Solar PV generation can be useful to reduce grid demand regarding) and I'm thinking washing machines, tumble driers, cookers, showers/baths, heating. I would assume you are relatively low users on key things like that... and certainly regarding heating it looks likely if prepared to drop that low for temperature. 

As it happens I'm in the process of selling my house... to show how effectively you are at keeping bills low... in the last 3 months nobody has been living in my house... we have used precisely zero gas (as no hot water being used and thermostat set at 14C) and we are using less than1kWh of electricity a day running some things like fridges and freezers and hardware for works/gardening... yet our bills are still around £20 a month essentially from standing charges. So I imagine our bills would be in excess of £300 with nobody living there over the course of a year including winter for some basic heating.

[Deleted User]

Muttleythefrog said:

Deleted_User said:

Apodemus said:

If the OP's total annual energy cost really is only £400 (and I find that hard to comprehend, unless heating and hot water is by free wood fuel), then that comes to roughly 6kWh per day, so the amount of battery back-up needed to cope with grid fluctuations wouldn't need to be huge.  It wouldn't necessarily be financially worth it and it most likely wouldn't reduce the OP's carbon footprint.  I have a 1kW UPS that would easily cover a couple of hours of the OPs average annual consumption of 250 watts per hour!

It Is only £400 pa dual fuel
I don't understand how some bills are £1000+
We are not miserly and have a full gas CH system which we run when it gets cold (15 degrees or so) we don't leave it running 24/7 as some do
We have an electric oven and hobs
We have a fridge freezer 

You are doing well... we'd struggle to match that... our bill is double yours basically and we do get free electricity with solar PV system and I would say lifestyle is miserly although also to factor in we are almost exclusively housebound and so running things like computers most the day. I'd say you are doing remarkably well and especially if more than one of you. I imagine that in domestic setting big drivers of difference are those things which require significant power over longer periods (the sort of things Solar PV generation can be useful to reduce grid demand regarding) and I'm thinking washing machines, tumble driers, cookers, showers/baths, heating. I would assume you are relatively low users on key things like that... and certainly regarding heating it looks likely if prepared to drop that low for temperature. 

As it happens I'm in the process of selling my house... to show how effectively you are at keeping bills low... in the last 3 months nobody has been living in my house... we have used precisely zero gas (as no hot water being used and thermostat set at 14C) and we are using less than1kWh of electricity a day running some things like fridges and freezers and hardware for works/gardening... yet our bills are still around £20 a month essentially from standing charges. So I imagine our bills would be in excess of £300 with nobody living there over the course of a year including winter for some basic heating.

We do have a washing machine and use it perhaps 4 times a week
Our standing charge is 1/3 of our bill..gas and elect