Solar panels questions

ComicGeek

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yes!! 

"Fabric First".  If and when it can be cost effective to self-generate, the house is already using the least amount of energy possible.  

Wisest use of funds.  

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

£400 per annum, £33 per month on all heating, hot water, cooking, electrical usage?

If so, why do you need to reduce this further? There's a law of diminishing returns where it gets harder/more expensive to make further savings - that's when you say that it's enough, and just pay for the remaining usage.

Perhaps look at 100% renewable energy tariffs if you're not already.

Section62

Deleted_User said:

 

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

For clarity, does the £400pa exclude standing charges?

But as ComicGeek says, diminishing returns. If you reduce your energy consumption as much as you can, the need and viability of some 'energy saving' features diminishes.

Earlier in the thread you were shocked and disgusted about the difference between import and export rates.  By wanting the export rate increased you are effectively asking that other consumers (who may be less able to afford it) should subsidise your solar project (even more than they probably are already) to make it economically viable. There's nothing wrong with wanting this per se, but don't be surprised if the other consumers (via governments and regulators) refuse to do so.

[Deleted User]

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yes!! 

"Fabric First".  If and when it can be cost effective to self-generate, the house is already using the least amount of energy possible.  

Wisest use of funds.  

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

£400 per annum, £33 per month on all heating, hot water, cooking, electrical usage?

If so, why do you need to reduce this further? There's a law of diminishing returns where it gets harder/more expensive to make further savings - that's when you say that it's enough, and just pay for the remaining usage.

Perhaps look at 100% renewable energy tariffs if you're not already.

Yes - that is correct (gas and electricity) and I am with octopus on renewables already !

I do get £145 discount (Warm Homes)

FreeBear

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yup. The manufacturing process for a solar panel & electronics is really very dirty. As for lithium and some of the other metals used in batteries, there is a huge environmental impact in mining for the stuff. Refining the raw ingredients to a purity good enough for commercial use requires a massive amount of energy, so the carbon footprint is huge.

Even recycling batteries consumes large amounts of energy and it is unlikely that one would be able to conserve/generate sufficient levels to offset power used in manufacture.

Muttleythefrog

Deleted_User said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yes!! 

"Fabric First".  If and when it can be cost effective to self-generate, the house is already using the least amount of energy possible.  

Wisest use of funds.  

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

£400 per annum, £33 per month on all heating, hot water, cooking, electrical usage?

If so, why do you need to reduce this further? There's a law of diminishing returns where it gets harder/more expensive to make further savings - that's when you say that it's enough, and just pay for the remaining usage.

Perhaps look at 100% renewable energy tariffs if you're not already.

Yes - that is correct (gas and electricity) and I am with octopus on renewables already !

I do get £145 discount (Warm Homes)

If you're only using £250 of electricity a year I'd say forget solar... period... you're obviously a low user and as others have pointed out therefore panels will give quite limited benefit. It's unclear what you're trying to achieve to be honest but unless a hobby it seems a waste of time and money. 

ComicGeek

Deleted_User said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yes!! 

"Fabric First".  If and when it can be cost effective to self-generate, the house is already using the least amount of energy possible.  

Wisest use of funds.  

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

£400 per annum, £33 per month on all heating, hot water, cooking, electrical usage?

If so, why do you need to reduce this further? There's a law of diminishing returns where it gets harder/more expensive to make further savings - that's when you say that it's enough, and just pay for the remaining usage.

Perhaps look at 100% renewable energy tariffs if you're not already.

Yes - that is correct (gas and electricity) and I am with octopus on renewables already !

I do get £145 discount (Warm Homes)

Well I would say that you're doing really well already then. 

Depending on annual mileage and car use, then possibly the next step would be looking at an electric car, with octopus's 5p rate for charging at night. But again that wouldn't necessarily fit everyone.

[Deleted User]

Is solar worth it - simple answer, of course it is. I put a 7kWp array on my roof last year which looks as if it will generate about 5900kWhs of which 2000kWhs will be exported. Installation cost was £7000 including in-roof fittings.

I am importing about 800kWhs/year at a cost of £40 plus standing charge. I am saving about 3900kWhs/year at c.15p/kWh which equates to a saving of £585 per year. SEG payments equal £110 per year so nett return is £695 per year. This equates to a break even point of 10.07 years at today’s electricity prices.

PS My EV also gets charged for nothing.

Muttleythefrog

Dolor said:

Is solar worth it - simple answer, of course it is. I put a 7kWp array on my roof last year which looks as if it will generate about 5900kWhs of which 2000kWhs will be exported. Installation cost was £7000 including in-roof fittings.

I am importing about 800kWhs/year at a cost of £40 plus standing charge. I am saving about 3900kWhs/year at c.15p/kWh which equates to a saving of £585 per year. SEG payments equal £110 per year so nett return is £695 per year. This equates to a break even point of 10.07 years at today’s electricity prices.

PS My EV also gets charged for nothing.

With due respect I think this is misleading for the Op.. for 2 obvious reasons:

1. It is unlikely they'd install a system of that size generation on their garage roof and orientation will be far from ideal
2. They're using far less electricity than you and so couldn't conceivably get anything like the same benefits of generation

I would also say your utilisation is extremely high on what you're producing unless you're using battery storage... especially when you consider how little you use from grid. I would be surprised if the Op can achieve much more than 50% utilisation of what is generated... but given how little electricity they already use I think it would be likely they'd struggle to get half used. Bear in mind they only spend £250 a year now... so if they spent £4k (hard to know as they may do some things themselves) on system... there's a decent chance they'll be dead before getting money back.. and then there's maintenance like replacement inverter

Rosa_Damascena

Deleted_User said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yes!! 

"Fabric First".  If and when it can be cost effective to self-generate, the house is already using the least amount of energy possible.  

Wisest use of funds.  

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

£400 per annum, £33 per month on all heating, hot water, cooking, electrical usage?

If so, why do you need to reduce this further? There's a law of diminishing returns where it gets harder/more expensive to make further savings - that's when you say that it's enough, and just pay for the remaining usage.

Perhaps look at 100% renewable energy tariffs if you're not already.

Yes - that is correct (gas and electricity) and I am with octopus on renewables already !

I do get £145 discount (Warm Homes)

I had to Google this to make sure I wasn't missing out (I'm not). If you qualify, how can you possibly afford to invest in solar panels upfront knowing that its going to take decades to break even? 

[Deleted User]

Rosa_Damascena said:

Deleted_User said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Doozergirl said:

ComicGeek said:

Deleted_User said:

Slinky said:

Doozergirl said:

Deleted_User said:

OK - Is one panel much the same as another ?

Presumably - none of these companies manufacture them, themselves ?

How do I judge quality ?

Is it OK to buy the cheapest available and rely on warranties ?

Is fitting the panels a bigger issue than the quality of the panels ?

At the moment - they appear to be around £6k for a 4kW system

And should generate around 3000-4000kW hrs of power per annum - ie) we use around 2500kW hrs - so that would cover all of our daylight needs !

Will it?  Are you home all day ready to use it all as it's produced?  

Otherwise you need to store it in batteries at more cost.  

I think anyone buying solar panels right now needs to look at it as a hobby, not a moneysaving exercise.  

We were all set to sign up for solar last year, payback would have been about 15 years, but then covid hit and took a chunk of our savings so unfortunately we decided not to proceed as we just couldn't justify the expense.

If I go for it - the reasons will NOT be financial 

The environmental argument doesn't stack up either - much better to look at other energy efficiency measures which use less intensive manufacturing processes and fewer raw materials.

Much better to reduce usage through other means first. I still get calls from clients asking about PVs when they don't have loft insulation, have a 20 year old oil boiler, single glazed windows, halogen spotlights etc. 

Yes!! 

"Fabric First".  If and when it can be cost effective to self-generate, the house is already using the least amount of energy possible.  

Wisest use of funds.  

But we only spend £400pa on energy - how can this be reduced further? We have 12 inches of loft insulation, double glazing and cavity insulation 

£400 per annum, £33 per month on all heating, hot water, cooking, electrical usage?

If so, why do you need to reduce this further? There's a law of diminishing returns where it gets harder/more expensive to make further savings - that's when you say that it's enough, and just pay for the remaining usage.

Perhaps look at 100% renewable energy tariffs if you're not already.

Yes - that is correct (gas and electricity) and I am with octopus on renewables already !

I do get £145 discount (Warm Homes)

I had to Google this to make sure I wasn't missing out (I'm not). If you qualify, how can you possibly afford to invest in solar panels upfront knowing that its going to take decades to break even? 

Why?
What exactly are you querying?
Savings do not affect WHD!
I am disabled and receive DLA
And have a total income of under £16190