12 weeks notice is up... (a quick little question again)

frogga

Morning getmore4less

Is is complicated because the year was full of odd things happening.

Firstly he was being paid Furlough from March to September. They were VERY reluctant to furlough him as they kept working during lockdown but as he was clinically vulnerable they finally agreed and paid him 80%. In September his employer decided he felt Mr Frog should get back to work or he would get used to being 'lazy' so he told him he would no longer accept furlough for him. 

While he was deciding if he could/should go back, We asked for any holiday pay owed to him that he would have earned during those months and they paid him 10 days. Then GP and Consultant would not sanction him going back to work so signed him off sick. They then paid him SSP of £78 from Sept to March. The amount during this time remained the same SSP each week. We had Christmas, Boxing Day and New Year. On his payslip they 'paid' him these amounts, then deducted them at the bottom so he still got the same amount. He did not get any extra for those holidays.

His SSP ran out on 27th March and they stopped paying him. I asked for any accrued holiday and they gave him 16 more days (plus the 10 previously makes a total of 26 days for last holiday year).

He then got no money from them at all and started claiming ESA. They started proceedings to dismiss him on Health Grounds. In May they paid him 3 days holiday. Then they agreed to pay him 12 weeks notice starting from Wed 5th May (it was a mid week meeting) to Tue 27th July so his final pay is 6th August as they pay a week behind.

Looking at it all like that, it is really complicated. They do not answer my emails and I really don't want to speak to them on the phone. Mr Frog would not remain civil so he can't do it. I think we should just walk away.

frogga

Also its VERY difficult to work out average holiday pay due to the furlough, SSP and notice pay all being different!!

getmore4less

You are now saying the notice started on the 5th of may

why did you say 24th May in the previous post?

You are now saying he got 3 days holiday paid  in May(this holiday year) 

Accrued  1 May- 27 July 
in days 88days ==  6.75days  or
weeks  12.4weeks  ==  6.68 days

paid  for 3 days ,  leaves 3.x which is nearly what they say they want to pay(looks like they might have have used 12 rounded up)


You may still need to get last years holiday pay sorted, as he was sick and unable to take they carry over so still need paying if they have not paid 5.6 weeks, they cannot deduct the weeks where no pay was due while off sick.

frogga

I'm sorry I got muddled up with all the different dates. I've checked the diary and corrected myself. Sorry to have annoyed you and thank you for spending time on this.

getmore4less

You will find a lot easier if you do a time line with the key information
dates things happen and weekly pay from the payslips (checked for any discrepancies).

When counting weeks for average pay weeks with zero don't count you go back 52 weeks with pay.


There should be some rule somewhere about weeks where furlough was paid  they should be counted as full pay weeks 

Also weeks where SSP is paid should be ignored as holiday pay is based on weeks when you work and get paid.

if the rate was the same every weeks worked then a good chance that is what it will work out at.

frogga

Ok thank you, that's clear. A timeline is a good idea. So much happened int he last 12 months its very hard to keep up.

I am very grateful for your time, thank you x

MattMattMattUK

frogga said:

Mr Frog is VERY keen to get some part time work as he is VERY bored at home and really wants to do SOMETHING. I would like to ask for a reference as he did nothing wrong. They dismissed him due to his health and their view was they could not accomadate his needs. Do I just ask for one and use it on each application?

In relation to this part references are now largely irrelevant, most companies only confirm employment dates and nothing more (some will not even do that), due to issues with disclosing any further information or being honest about a past employee. Most prospective employers also know that references are largely useless.

frogga said:

Do I just ask for one and use it on each application?

As an employer, if someone handed me a reference that they said that they were given by a previous employee, I would not trust it. 

frogga said:

If we dont see what they have written, they could say not nice things about him and I would like to know!

They could, but it would be very unwise as that would almost certainly be regarded as defamation and they can also not disclose any protected information, for instance health issues.

Apply for the jobs he wants, do not worry about references, be honest when asked why he left, and you will have no problems.

Undervalued

You need to check the calculations very carefully as it is not the simplest thing to work out. The employer may be wrong (either by accident or design!) or you may be or possibly even both!

The good news is that (assuming he hasn't signed a settlement agreement) he could pursue any shortfall in the county court / moneyclaim online at any point in the next six years (five in Scotland)!

It could also be done via an employment tribunal but he would have to file any claim within three months, less one day, of leaving.

Neither will be quick so a reasoned exchange of letters with them explaining your calculations will most likely get you the money sooner.

Edit to add....

When working this out, forget the bank holiday aspect as it is a red herring. His. legal entitlement is simply to 5.6 weeks (28 days) paid holiday per year. Whether some of those days fall on bank holidays or not it irrelevant. 

Remember too that he continues to accrue holiday during the 12 weeks paid notice. It should be calculated exactly and not rounded down to the nearest whole or half day.

frogga

Thank you very much Matt that is all very reassuring. Undervalued I remember the bit about BHs from the last time you helped me so I did pay attention.

I think, looking at it for the last 4 hours, that my only gripe is this years holiday now. Employer has said he earned 4.5 days in the 12 weeks of notice but we think it should be 6.5. She paid him for the Spring BH (not extra, as part of his notice) so she says she only owes him 3.5. I guess we will see on Friday what she pays him. I did email and ask for an explanation but she did not respond. I think he will be owed 1.5 days, and I am just not sure if I am right, or if is is worth the hassle asking for it.

Thank you for your help.

getmore4less

You should calculate from the beginning of the holiday year which is May1st and you say 3 days of holiday were paid after the 1st May.