12 weeks notice is up... (a quick little question again)

frogga

Hello All,

Some of you may remember you helped me (well, Mr Frog) 12 weeks ago when his employer dismissed him on health grounds. With the advice I got from some of you smashing people we successfully received 12 weeks pay and the last one is due on Friday 6th (yes, I can't believe that was 12 weeks ago either!).

You also advised that during those 12 weeks Mr Frog would earn Holiday so we should keep quite until the last week and then ask for the Holiday too. If we had told them we wanted Holiday pay they could have told him to take it at any time, but now they are too late to make him do that.

We emailed Mr Frog's employer on Friday as he is now no longer an employee (last offical day 27th). We asked for his P45 and also the Holiday. I said that we think he should be entitled to 6 days. He is allowed 28 days per year, 28/52=0.53 (so half a day a week) x 12 weeks is 6.46 so I rounded it down to 6 days.

Employer said he is only entitled to 4.5 days and that they paid him for May Bank holiday so that leaves 3.5 days. I accept the day for May Bank Holiday, but I asked for the calculation of why he is 1.5 days short and they did not reply. I feel they owe him for the 1.5 days. At £126 a day they owe him £189. That is a months shopping so I dont want to just forget it.

Any advice as to what we can do (if anything) if they just give him the 3.5 days on Friday? 

Mr Frog is VERY keen to get some part time work as he is VERY bored at home and really wants to do SOMETHING. I would like to ask for a reference as he did nothing wrong. They dismissed him due to his health and their view was they could not accomadate his needs. Do I just ask for one and use it on each application? If we dont see what they have written, they could say not nice things about him and I would like to know!

Thank you friends x

oh_really

frogga said:

Any advice as to what we can do (if anything) if they just give him the 3.5 days on Friday? 

Easiest for you https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome, or ask if they'd prefer to be heard at tribunal....(No 6) https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiFyYSuqJDyAhXOilwKHTcyB3AQFjAKegQIAxAD&url=https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/324686/employment-annex.xls&usg=AOvVaw1uaKF745i1ofK82xdnDpFS

frogga

Well I had no idea that we could do such a thing! Thank you very much for that Oh Really xxx

General_Grant

The calculation of holidays accrued up to the time of termination of employment should be calculated according to the actual amount of time employed during the holiday year.

Sorry if you posted this in your earlier thread but:
when did the holiday year start (1 April or some other day)?
other than the BH in May was he paid for any other BH (Good Friday, Easter Monday, the other May BH)?

The amount of paid leave cannot be rounded down, any rounding has to be up (but can be exact).

The value of a day's pay is a separate calculation. 
Again, your other thread may have covered this but:
Other than when he may have been absent sick, has his hourly rate been exactly the same for the past year?

theoretica

4.5 days for 12 weeks looks like they maybe did the calculation on 20 days holiday + 8 BH and got 4.5 - in which case they definitely can't then take off the BH!  But was he definitely on 0 days owed at the start of the notice?

frogga

Hello friends,

Holiday goes from 1st May to 30th April. He defo didn't have the other BH paid to him (Easter was in last years). If you are right and they did calculate it on 20 days, then yes, they do owe him the other May BH at least.

He started his 12 weeks notice pay on 24th May. He was getting SSP from Sept to March 27th and they did pay him some holiday pay at the end of March. He did not get a full year, he got 2 days less than that (26 days) so I am guessing you are exactly right that they calculated his holiday as a pro rate thing. He had no money from them in between 27th March and 24th May so did he not earn holiday for that period? HE was still an employee just not being paid.

He does not have an hourly rate, they have been paying him £126 a day for this 12 weeks notice period. 

This is quite confusing to me but I'm concentrating hard so keep telling me xxx

frogga

Can I also ask about holiday during SSP please. They were paying him SSP from Sept to March, and during that time we had Christmas, but he did not get those BHs in his pay. He got the exact amount of SSP that week. Then in January his payslip said that he had been paid for Christmas Day and Boxing day (under the column of Year to Date), but he hadn't he just got the ususal SSP amount.

General_Grant

He would have accrued holiday during his sickness absence.

If he was paid holiday at the end of the holiday year then they should have calculated this by deducting whatever holiday had really been paid during the year from the total of 28 days due for the year.   It seems he was due paid leave for Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year BH, Good Friday and Easter Monday.  If he was on sick leave and they didn't pay that time then it should have either been paid at the end of the year or the time carried forward to the current year (and of course that stays as time: it isn't apportioned for the time employed this year).

If his pay was £126/day for a long time, then that is the rate due to be used when calculating holiday pay - but the statutory sick pay may reduce this because the value of a day's pay is a one-year average figure.  (That is specifically for holiday pay, not notice pay which remains at £126/day.)

frogga

That is very interesting, you know so much. Thank you.

This Friday will be his last ever pay from them, after 14 years, and it feels like a big chapter has ended in our lives. Part of me wants to just walk away and cut our losses and part of me is very annoyed about the way he was treated (for years) and wants to get what is rightly his. I'm not sure I can be bothered with the hassle though.

getmore4less

frogga said:

Hello friends,

Holiday goes from 1st May to 30th April. He defo didn't have the other BH paid to him (Easter was in last years). If you are right and they did calculate it on 20 days, then yes, they do owe him the other May BH at least.

He started his 12 weeks notice pay on 24th May. He was getting SSP from Sept to March 27th and they did pay him some holiday pay at the end of March. He did not get a full year, he got 2 days less than that (26 days) so I am guessing you are exactly right that they calculated his holiday as a pro rate thing. He had no money from them in between 27th March and 24th May so did he not earn holiday for that period? HE was still an employee just not being paid.

He does not have an hourly rate, they have been paying him £126 a day for this 12 weeks notice period. 

This is quite confusing to me but I'm concentrating hard so keep telling me xxx

There are a couple of things in there ......

if he started 12 weeks on the 24th of May that makes W/E 15th Aug the last week. 

Why do you think his last day was 27July?

IF employed then he is entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday irrespective of any weeks not paid, you accrue based on time as an employee so if he was employed for the full holiday year 1 May 2020- 30 April 2021 dues the full 5.6 weeks. 

The average of the last 52 weeks to get a weeks holiday pay sorts out the amount due for a week(or part week) holiday.

74jax

getmore4less said:

frogga said:

Hello friends,

Holiday goes from 1st May to 30th April. He defo didn't have the other BH paid to him (Easter was in last years). If you are right and they did calculate it on 20 days, then yes, they do owe him the other May BH at least.

He started his 12 weeks notice pay on 24th May. He was getting SSP from Sept to March 27th and they did pay him some holiday pay at the end of March. He did not get a full year, he got 2 days less than that (26 days) so I am guessing you are exactly right that they calculated his holiday as a pro rate thing. He had no money from them in between 27th March and 24th May so did he not earn holiday for that period? HE was still an employee just not being paid.

He does not have an hourly rate, they have been paying him £126 a day for this 12 weeks notice period. 

This is quite confusing to me but I'm concentrating hard so keep telling me xxx

There are a couple of things in there ......

if he started 12 weeks on the 24th of May that makes W/E 15th Aug the last week. 

Why do you think his last day was 27July?

IF employed then he is entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday irrespective of any weeks not paid, you accrue based on time as an employee so if he was employed for the full holiday year 1 May 2020- 30 April 2021 dues the full 5.6 weeks. 

The average of the last 52 weeks to get a weeks holiday pay sorts out the amount due for a week(or part week) holiday.

I was just about to mention I thought his 12 weeks was ending early.