Victim of bank phone scam!

Bigbobby

I feel so stupid being the victim of a phone scam.  I have my own issues going on with epilepsy, depression and anxiety and this is the last thing I need.  Around lunchtime today I took a phone call and the mobile showed the First Direct number.  Someone claiming to be from the First Direct fraud department said they had noticed suspicious transactions on my account.  I was asked to go into my app and give some passcodes and I also revealed the answer to a memorable question.  He said thanks and hung up.  Next thing I've had £5750 taken out of my account!
I called First Direct straight away who said it was a scam as they would never call me.  I have now changed my security details whilst they look into it and they said they would write to me by letter.  They could not tell me at this stage whether I would get my money back.  Has anyone been in this situation before and/or the fraud investigation process the bank now does and what the outcomes could be?
Please no nasty comments, I've already said I was stupid. 

Neruda

You need some good advice. Essentially, if you chose to give them codes and security details you have lost the money: if you were forced to do so by someone whom you had good reason was speaking with the authority of First Direct then they are obliged to return your money. Unless you have already had a long and detailed conversation when you reported the fraud it is likely that one of their investigators will telephone you, and you will have to be very careful indeed about the exact words you use.

MalMonroe

Bigbobby said:

I feel so stupid being the victim of a phone scam.  I have my own issues going on with epilepsy, depression and anxiety and this is the last thing I need.  Around lunchtime today I took a phone call and the mobile showed the First Direct number.  Someone claiming to be from the First Direct fraud department said they had noticed suspicious transactions on my account.  I was asked to go into my app and give some passcodes and I also revealed the answer to a memorable question.  He said thanks and hung up.  Next thing I've had £5750 taken out of my account!
I called First Direct straight away who said it was a scam as they would never call me.  I have now changed my security details whilst they look into it and they said they would write to me by letter.  They could not tell me at this stage whether I would get my money back.  Has anyone been in this situation before and/or the fraud investigation process the bank now does and what the outcomes could be?
Please no nasty comments, I've already said I was stupid. 

Hi, I'm so sorry this has happened. I don't think you're stupid at all, it's just that scammers are now becoming very clever and more inventive and it's not your fault. 

My bank does not contact me by phone if they think there's been any suspicious activity on my account but my daughter's bank, HSBC does sometimes call - and their calls are genuine. So it's not easy to be aware of whether it's a scam or not as not all banks operate in the same way.

You reported it to your bank straight away and now they're on the case. If they write to you and say they can't give you a refund, then you can appeal to the Financial Ombudsman, link below. But as they're going to investigate, you can't really do much until you have their decision. 

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/fraud-scams

If you read through the Financial Ombudsman's website in the link above about scams and fraud, it explains everything in great detail, including the fact that since May 2019, customers have greater protection from scammers. 

I think that because you didn't actually give the scammer permission to withdraw anything from your account, then you have a good chance of getting the money back. You simply thought you were trying to be more vigilant. 

If you haven't already reported this to Action Fraud, the general advice is for you to do so in order to try to put a stop to this kind of scam.

Good luck! But as I said, I think you have every chance of getting your money back.

p3ncilsharpener

MalMonroe said:

Bigbobby said:

I feel so stupid being the victim of a phone scam.  I have my own issues going on with epilepsy, depression and anxiety and this is the last thing I need.  Around lunchtime today I took a phone call and the mobile showed the First Direct number.  Someone claiming to be from the First Direct fraud department said they had noticed suspicious transactions on my account.  I was asked to go into my app and give some passcodes and I also revealed the answer to a memorable question.  He said thanks and hung up.  Next thing I've had £5750 taken out of my account!
I called First Direct straight away who said it was a scam as they would never call me.  I have now changed my security details whilst they look into it and they said they would write to me by letter.  They could not tell me at this stage whether I would get my money back.  Has anyone been in this situation before and/or the fraud investigation process the bank now does and what the outcomes could be?
Please no nasty comments, I've already said I was stupid. 

Hi, I'm so sorry this has happened. I don't think you're stupid at all, it's just that scammers are now becoming very clever and more inventive and it's not your fault. 

My bank does not contact me by phone if they think there's been any suspicious activity on my account but my daughter's bank, HSBC does sometimes call - and their calls are genuine. So it's not easy to be aware of whether it's a scam or not as not all banks operate in the same way.

You reported it to your bank straight away and now they're on the case. If they write to you and say they can't give you a refund, then you can appeal to the Financial Ombudsman, link below. But as they're going to investigate, you can't really do much until you have their decision. 

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/fraud-scams

If you read through the Financial Ombudsman's website in the link above about scams and fraud, it explains everything in great detail, including the fact that since May 2019, customers have greater protection from scammers. 

I think that because you didn't actually give the scammer permission to withdraw anything from your account, then you have a good chance of getting the money back. You simply thought you were trying to be more vigilant. 

If you haven't already reported this to Action Fraud, the general advice is for you to do so in order to try to put a stop to this kind of scam.

Good luck! But as I said, I think you have every chance of getting your money back.

There's nothing clever about this scam, it works because people are too trusting/naive.

If your bank calls you, ask what department they're calling from and call the number on the back of your card or a bank statement and ask if the call is genuine and if so to put you through to the relevant department.

There is some advice on calling with a different phone as they can keep the line open but that certainly doesn't apply to mobile phones.

colsten

Bigbobby said:

.......  I was asked to go into my app and give some passcodes and I also revealed the answer to a memorable question.  He said thanks and hung up.  Next thing I've had £5750 taken out of my account!......

There must have been a lot of other stuff going on between you giving the information you said you gave them, and them syphoning £5,750 out of your account. They must have had full access to your account in order to make a payment from it, or they must have had your debit card data to make a payment by card.

As is basically always the case with the scam reports we read on this forum, none of us has enough information to make an educated guess on the likely outcome of the bank's investigation. You will have to wait what they say. If you are exceedingly lucky, they might refund you but if they find that you have been negligent, you won't get a refund. Sit tight until they get back to you, and please update this thread when you have heard further from First Direct.

pbartlett

Yes, whatever one's feelings about FD you can't deny they are like Fort Knox to get into - you need a secure key which generates login codes and transaction codes, and the fraudster would also have needed to know your login userid and a second piece of memorable information as well as the secure key login code to login and even begin to do a transaction.

nyermen

If you do online banking, please immediately assume your computer (or at least one you've used) is compromised (virus?).  

As mentioned, there is more than just codes from the app required to set up new payees (such as login info etc), hence posters here suspect there is something else compromised.  They knew a lot in advance which is worrying.

This one will need a harder push at the bank I suspect - HSBC app now pops up with "we will not ask for any codes from this app, only a fraudster will".  Assuming FD does the same (FD is part of HSBC group, app is different but I believe they have a lot of similarities), they may argue they've given enough warning.

kaMelo

I agree there is a lot that happened here that you haven't told us however under CRM the starting position is that the bank are liable to refund you if you've been scammed unless they can prove you were in on the scam, were negligent or it was a civil dispute.  
Just because you ignored warnings from your bank and solicitor, in the eyes of the ombudsman it does not constitute negligence. Bizarre I know, but that's the position the ombudsman takes. 

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/299829/DRN-2605137.pdf

After reading that case it would appear that the ombudsman considers the only effective action a bank could take is to put someone in a straight jacket.


To the OP, complain to the bank, if rejected take it to the ombudsman. You will get your money back.

Teapot55

CRM. What is CRM, please? 

maisie_cat

The financial ombudsman has previously ruled on these scams.
The websites are splattered with scam warnings and despite the bank saying that the customer was grossly negligent giving passcodes they were forced to repay the customer. 
You will probably get your money back, but may need the ombudsman to enforce it.
No bank will ever ask for passcodes over the phone.

RG2015

Teapot55 said:

CRM. What is CRM, please? 

Mr Google says Customer Relationship Management.

Alternatively, the link on kaMelo's post has the following CRM occurring 43 times in the FOS statement.

...Contingent Reimbursement Model Code (CRM code)..