Structural issues.

Stevedagrunt

Hi there,

We recently had our builders survey back and there are some structural issues that are concerning me, primarily the dreaded subsidence! I wasn't expecting a flawless survey as the area we are buying in is primarily clay, It's a 1930's house and has a 'moderate' risk for ground instability on the enviromental search. I'm getting a structural engineer out on Tuesday to have a look, however I'm just wondering what everyone's views here are on the points below?

• To the front of the property there is an open storm porch. The storm porch slab has consolidated and the roof is pulling away from the building, there are tapered gaps from 10-25mm (approximately) on the vertical timbers which secure the roof to the main building. The lead flashing between the main house and the porch roof will need to be replaced as it is being pulled away from the building due to the consolidation.

• There is evidence of historical structural moment to the right hand elevation where the brickwork has had stepped cracks made good in the past. We are unable to confirm whether this movement is progressive we recommend further investigations by an engineer or wall tie specialist are undertaken prior to purchase.

• There was distortion to the front bay, the wall appear to be leaning and this may be a rotation of/or consolidation of the foundations to the front bay.

• The wall between the living room and the dining room appeared to be subsiding or consolidating as the floorboards in these rooms were running down towards the wall.

• Floors throughout the property were covered over which prevented an inspection of the suspended timber floors or the mass concrete floors to the extension. the floors were bouncy and undulated to the entrance hall, dining room and living room and first floor and showing signs of wear and tear. We recommend that the floors are uplifted and the joists are checked prior to purchase.

Doozergirl

Hmm.  It's not glowing, is it.  

All houses move, it's just a matter of what level is acceptable. 

The porch probably has no footings, ditto the bay window.  That's normal, so they move differently to the house.  It's a common defect that they begin to move away from the house.  An inch is pretty significant.  

I'd be happier with sloping floors in a 19th century house or earlier than one from the 30s.  

Are you expecting to be doing work?  It's the bouncy floor boards that probably do it for me.  Something's been going on.  All surveys make frightening reading, but that one does hold some concern for me and I would at least follow the advice to hire a structural engineer.  I don't ask for written reports in the first instance, I ask for a walk-around meeting and discussion to save a bit of money.  

So, another couple of hundred quid can give you detail to give you a bit more of an informed decision.   If you do go ahead with the purchase,  that's when you ask for the report.  

tdawber

Too many issues for me. Main things for me would be the bouncy floors and brickwork with stepped cracks…. And their recommendation of further (that has been specified) investigation before purchase.  I live in a 1930’s and don’t have any of these problems. 👍

Stevedagrunt

Thanks for the replies both. So it seems the bouncy floor boards around the house are the biggest concern, looking online it seems like the reason for this could be quite a wide variety of issues

Doozergirl

Stevedagrunt said:

Thanks for the replies both. So it seems the bouncy floor boards around the house are the biggest concern, looking online it seems like the reason for this could be quite a wide variety of issues

None of them great.  Movement or rot most likely.  

Like the other poster, we just moved from a 1930s house and it was solid and pretty level! Bit of evidence of movement in the loft, but everything else was good.  

Stevedagrunt

Doozergirl said:

Stevedagrunt said:

Thanks for the replies both. So it seems the bouncy floor boards around the house are the biggest concern, looking online it seems like the reason for this could be quite a wide variety of issues

None of them great.  Movement or rot most likely.  

Like the other poster, we just moved from a 1930s house and it was solid and pretty level! Bit of evidence of movement in the loft, but everything else was good.  

This explains why it's on the market for considerably less. The house 5 doors down went for £450k a few weeks ago and ours is £375k with the owner willing to negotiate the surveyor heavily suggested. We thought this was because it needed a modern update (new kitchen, rewire, old porch rebuilt) however the structural issues add another whole level of work that needs to be doing clearly! Big decisions to be made

Stevedagrunt

Just in case anyone reads this in the future and is in a similar position, get a structural engineer out! So we've just had our structural report back, and after speaking to the engineer he seems to think the building is structurally sound! And our original surveyor was being very conservative (apparently very common). Very unsure what is causing the bouncy floors considering the picture below. 

• The fine cracks observed are not considered structural and considered to be as a result of shrinkage from moisture variations in the property. No indications of recent / active foundation movement were noted to the walls.
• The floors deflect approximately 15mm towards the centre of the room. It is possible the ground floor dwarf walls supporting the floors between main loadbearing walls are built off the sub-floor oversite concrete, or shallow foundations and some settlement of these walls has occurred. This is not uncommon for a building of this age. The distortion of the internal door frames, and downwards settlement of the adjoining wall is associated with deflection of the floors, not foundation movement. The wall is non-loadbearing built off the floor. Therefore, this is a serviceability issue not a structural issue.

Doozergirl

Fabulous! 

Your bounciness might just be that the joists are a bit under specced for the span.  

But they do look lovely! 

stuart45

I would guess that the floor problem is to do with the sleepers walls. Possibly not enough, or sinking slightly. The oversite concrete may be a bit thin. The idea of them is that you can use smaller timbers. Otherwise as Doozergirl said you need deeper joists.

Section62

Doozergirl said:

Your bounciness might just be that the joists are a bit under specced for the span.  

Difficult to tell from the picture alone, but to me they look newer and cleaner than I'd expect from the condition of the brickwork, and they also look quite widely spaced.

I wonder whether someone has redone the floor and just used off-the-shelf 4x2(?) rather than matched the original section, and has also opened up the spacings a bit to save a fractionally on materials cost?

Without seeing the full span it isn't easy to tell. But it doesn't feel like a PPI job to me.

Doozergirl

Section62 said:

Doozergirl said:

Your bounciness might just be that the joists are a bit under specced for the span.  

Difficult to tell from the picture alone, but to me they look newer and cleaner than I'd expect from the condition of the brickwork, and they also look quite widely spaced.

I wonder whether someone has redone the floor and just used off-the-shelf 4x2(?) rather than matched the original section, and has also opened up the spacings a bit to save a fractionally on materials cost?

Without seeing the full span it isn't easy to tell. But it doesn't feel like a PPI job to me.

You are right. They are very clean.