Should I buy a bungalow with extension work without sign off from the Building Control?

randd

Hi,

My offer was accepted for a 4 bedroom Bungalow, the house was renovated & extended in 2014. After my offer was accepted, I found a solicitor and instructed them on the sale and purchase of my house by paying the initial fee. Plus, also paid for the structural survey as the house is from the 1950s.

Recently, the seller's agent has got back to me and told me 2 issues for this house:

• There is no underfloor heating building regulation certificate.
• There was planning permission for the property but the Building control for the extension was not completed and has not been signed off. However, this is not a problem as the vendor's solicitors can buy indemnity insurance in order to protect you.
  

As per the land registry, this house has been sold twice:

1. 21/05/2014 £250,000 (It had Hallway via the front door, reception, kitchen, 2 or 3 bedrooms, bathroom)
2. 30/11/2016 £350,000 (It had Hallway via the front door, kitchen, 4 bedrooms, utility room, 2 bathrooms)

Seller 1 bought this house in 2014 and has renovated it plus applied a planning application to the council for a single-storey rear extension to have a living room and kitchen. I have received the council letter from the estate agent as I was asking questions about it, the council decided to grant the planning permission based on the designs submitted back in 2014. 

Seller 1 did the job and sold the house to Seller 2 in Nov 2016 without the building control completion certificate. The new owner just lived at this house for a while and then moved out of the UK somewhere in Europe. 

Now as such he is out of the UK, he is selling the house but without the building control completion certificate. I have requested him via his agent to either complete the sign off process or get the retrospective regularisation certificate for the sale but he is not willing to do it. He would like to sell the house as it is with the indemnity insurance. 

Now, the UK housing regulation is new for me as I didn't have to do anything like this when I bought my property as it was a new build. 

Below are my questions:

 - Should I buy this house with indemnity insurance? 
 - Will the absence of the completion certificate affect my future extension application to the council/planning authority? As the garden is of good size and I was hoping to extend the house at the back by proper planning permission regulations. 
 - If the result of my own structural survey, searches is satisfactory, Should I buy this house and request the building control to complete the sign-off process? 
 - Is there any other impact that I should be aware of at this stage? I'll not be selling the house unless there is some odd financial situation. 
 - Is there any certificate required from some authority (building control, electrician, etc.) for the underfloor heating? 
 - Will there be any issue to get building insurance when building control completion certificate is not available? 

Any guidance will be much appreciated. 

AdrianC

randd said:

Below are my questions:

 - Should I buy this house with indemnity insurance?

Your call, unless your lender is insisting on it.

What will the indemnity pay out for?
Usually, they just pay out the legal costs arising from any enforcement by the local authority.

BUT... the work was done too long ago for the LA to be able to enforce anything.

- Will the absence of the completion certificate affect my future extension application to the council/planning authority? As the garden is of good size and I was hoping to extend the house at the back by proper planning permission regulations.

Nope.

- If the result of my own structural survey, searches is satisfactory, Should I buy this house and request the building control to complete the sign-off process?

It's unlikely to be as simple as just finishing some paperwork and paying a bill.

They will almost certainly need to satisfy themselves that stuff that can't be seen is to scratch. That means making holes in walls, removing tiles... invasive work.

And the standards required may have changed, so even if the work was done to the then-current standard, it may need changing to conform to today's standard before it can be signed off.

- Is there any other impact that I should be aware of at this stage? I'll not be selling the house unless there is some odd financial situation.

Not really.

- Is there any certificate required from some authority (building control, electrician, etc.) for the underfloor heating?

Required by who?

- Will there be any issue to get building insurance when building control completion certificate is not available?

Nope.

eddddy

randd said:

 - If the result of my own structural survey...

Taking a step back... it might be worth thinking about why the homeowner at the time didn't get building regs sign-off.


For example, it could be because they couldn't be bothered, or they wanted to save the cost of the fee, or they didn't know it was necessary (and their builder kept quiet about it, because they didn't want a building inspector breathing down their neck).

Or it may be because they knew it didn't comply with building regs - so they didn't bother applying.


Building regs doesn't just apply to structural stuff. For example, if the bungalow's loft was converted, it could be that the staircase doesn't meet building regs (too steep and/or insufficient head height).  And you might be completely happy with that.

And the homeowners might have done that because it was physically impossible to fit a compliant staircase in the space available. So there would be no way that you could 'correct' that building regs failure, even if you wanted to.


If you're getting a full structural survey, tell your surveyor about the lack of building regs. The surveyor might be able to spot possible reasons, and highlight them to you. (And you might not be bothered about them.)

Davesnave

If the surveyor has serious doubts, they may refer you to a structural engineer, but there would be a problem if the  investigations required decoration-damaging 'surgery,' so be aware of that. Most vendors draw the line at holes in walls and ceilings.

Doozergirl

eddddy said:

randd said:

 - If the result of my own structural survey...

Taking a step back... it might be worth thinking about why the homeowner at the time didn't get building regs sign-off.


For example, it could be because they couldn't be bothered, or they wanted to save the cost of the fee, or they didn't know it was necessary (and their builder kept quiet about it, because they didn't want a building inspector breathing down their neck).

Or it may be because they knew it didn't comply with building regs - so they didn't bother applying.


Building regs doesn't just apply to structural stuff. For example, if the bungalow's loft was converted, it could be that the staircase doesn't meet building regs (too steep and/or insufficient head height).  And you might be completely happy with that.

And the homeowners might have done that because it was physically impossible to fit a compliant staircase in the space available. So there would be no way that you could 'correct' that building regs failure, even if you wanted to.


If you're getting a full structural survey, tell your surveyor about the lack of building regs. The surveyor might be able to spot possible reasons, and highlight them to you. (And you might not be bothered about them.)

You've forgotten the occurence that they did go through the process but didn't get the final sign off for it.   It does happen.  Sometimes people don't realise they need the final inspection.  It's hard for a subsequent owner to take that on as they can't guess what is missing and they risk invalidating any potential indemnity insurance by asking. 

Sometimes people don't get final sign off because there's one thing they have done that doesn't follow the regs.   That could be something as simple as the cooker hood being vented to outside...

OP, a certificate isn't needed for wet under floor heating.  The boiler installation would require one, but that certificate is only as good as the moment it was signed.   A current gas safety certificate and a service is the gold standard, as far as I am concerned.  

The main concern is whether the extension is safe.  A decent survey will help assess that.  

OP, if you extend again, then it's quite possible that the existing extension ends up getting sign off as a result of the new one.  You get and provide a certificate for a "single storey extension", which is what you have.  

Also, when you upgrade something existing and make a fresh application, building control are only concerned with your upgrades and not with the existing - unless there's something glaringly dangerous - and you'd want to fix that yourselves anyway.
So, you end up putting a new roof on the existing extension to tie it in to the new one (for example) and upgrade the insulation because the regs have tightened since 2014.  Your application title (which becomes your certificate title) becomes "new single storey extension with new roof and upgrades to existing extension".   

randd

Doozergirl said:

eddddy said:

randd said:

 - If the result of my own structural survey...

Taking a step back... it might be worth thinking about why the homeowner at the time didn't get building regs sign-off.


For example, it could be because they couldn't be bothered, or they wanted to save the cost of the fee, or they didn't know it was necessary (and their builder kept quiet about it, because they didn't want a building inspector breathing down their neck).

Or it may be because they knew it didn't comply with building regs - so they didn't bother applying.


Building regs doesn't just apply to structural stuff. For example, if the bungalow's loft was converted, it could be that the staircase doesn't meet building regs (too steep and/or insufficient head height).  And you might be completely happy with that.

And the homeowners might have done that because it was physically impossible to fit a compliant staircase in the space available. So there would be no way that you could 'correct' that building regs failure, even if you wanted to.


If you're getting a full structural survey, tell your surveyor about the lack of building regs. The surveyor might be able to spot possible reasons, and highlight them to you. (And you might not be bothered about them.)

You've forgotten the occurence that they did go through the process but didn't get the final sign off for it.   It does happen.  Sometimes people don't realise they need the final inspection.  It's hard for a subsequent owner to take that on as they can't guess what is missing and they risk invalidating any potential indemnity insurance by asking. 

Sometimes people don't get final sign off because there's one thing they have done that doesn't follow the regs.   That could be something as simple as the cooker hood being vented to outside...

OP, a certificate isn't needed for wet under floor heating.  The boiler installation would require one, but that certificate is only as good as the moment it was signed.   A current gas safety certificate and a service is the gold standard, as far as I am concerned.  

The main concern is whether the extension is safe.  A decent survey will help assess that.  

OP, if you extend again, then it's quite possible that the existing extension ends up getting sign off as a result of the new one.  You get and provide a certificate for a "single storey extension", which is what you have.  

Also, when you upgrade something existing and make a fresh application, building control are only concerned with your upgrades and not with the existing - unless there's something glaringly dangerous - and you'd want to fix that yourselves anyway.
So, you end up putting a new roof on the existing extension to tie it in to the new one (for example) and upgrade the insulation because the regs have tightened since 2014.  Your application title (which becomes your certificate title) becomes "new single storey extension with new roof and upgrades to existing extension".   

Hi Doozergirl, 

When I said that I may apply for extending the property, I meant that the extended living room and kitchen will remain as it is but there can be other rooms, conservatory, patio in the garden, etc. 

I'm in a dilemma whether to spend money on the searches, structural survey to figure out any more issues knowing the fact that the seller is not willing to get any sort of completion certificate or retrospective regularisation certificate from the building control. 

So, if I have to extend the property later, I'll need to inform the council which will void the indemnity insurance. And when they come for inspection, I'll have to get the work done as the only option regardless of the cost involved as now they will be aware of the missing completion. Is this true? 

user1977

randd said:

Doozergirl said:

eddddy said:

randd said:

 - If the result of my own structural survey...

Taking a step back... it might be worth thinking about why the homeowner at the time didn't get building regs sign-off.


For example, it could be because they couldn't be bothered, or they wanted to save the cost of the fee, or they didn't know it was necessary (and their builder kept quiet about it, because they didn't want a building inspector breathing down their neck).

Or it may be because they knew it didn't comply with building regs - so they didn't bother applying.


Building regs doesn't just apply to structural stuff. For example, if the bungalow's loft was converted, it could be that the staircase doesn't meet building regs (too steep and/or insufficient head height).  And you might be completely happy with that.

And the homeowners might have done that because it was physically impossible to fit a compliant staircase in the space available. So there would be no way that you could 'correct' that building regs failure, even if you wanted to.


If you're getting a full structural survey, tell your surveyor about the lack of building regs. The surveyor might be able to spot possible reasons, and highlight them to you. (And you might not be bothered about them.)

You've forgotten the occurence that they did go through the process but didn't get the final sign off for it.   It does happen.  Sometimes people don't realise they need the final inspection.  It's hard for a subsequent owner to take that on as they can't guess what is missing and they risk invalidating any potential indemnity insurance by asking. 

Sometimes people don't get final sign off because there's one thing they have done that doesn't follow the regs.   That could be something as simple as the cooker hood being vented to outside...

OP, a certificate isn't needed for wet under floor heating.  The boiler installation would require one, but that certificate is only as good as the moment it was signed.   A current gas safety certificate and a service is the gold standard, as far as I am concerned.  

The main concern is whether the extension is safe.  A decent survey will help assess that.  

OP, if you extend again, then it's quite possible that the existing extension ends up getting sign off as a result of the new one.  You get and provide a certificate for a "single storey extension", which is what you have.  

Also, when you upgrade something existing and make a fresh application, building control are only concerned with your upgrades and not with the existing - unless there's something glaringly dangerous - and you'd want to fix that yourselves anyway.
So, you end up putting a new roof on the existing extension to tie it in to the new one (for example) and upgrade the insulation because the regs have tightened since 2014.  Your application title (which becomes your certificate title) becomes "new single storey extension with new roof and upgrades to existing extension".   

if I have to extend the property later, I'll need to inform the council which will void the indemnity insurance. And when they come for inspection, I'll have to get the work done as the only option regardless of the cost involved as now they will be aware of the missing completion. Is this true? 

Not really. They'll be looking at whatever is needed for the new work to be passed, they're not going to be picking through whatever has been done in the past elsewhere in the house.

eddddy

randd said:

So, if I have to extend the property later, I'll need to inform the council which will void the indemnity insurance. And when they come for inspection, I'll have to get the work done as the only option regardless of the cost involved as now they will be aware of the missing completion. Is this true? 

No, it's not true.

It's up to you whether you inform the council or not. But either way, they won't be interested (and can't issue any kind of enforcement notice), if the work was done more than 12 months previously.

12 months is the time limit for enforcement.

A section 36 enforcement notice cannot be served on you after the expiration of 12 months from the date of completion of the building work. 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200128/building_control/38/building_regulations/3

randd

Thanks for your reply, everyone!  

So far I know 2 issues with the house:

1. Underfloor heating certificate - agent said that he doesn't have an underfloor heating building regulation certificate. @Doozergirl has mentioned that there is no certificate required for this. Then I'm not sure why has agent mentioned this! Is the certificate required from some other authority? Like some electrician or someone else who regulates the power & electricity stuff in the UK? 
2. No completion certificate for the single-storey rear extension work which was used to build the living room and kitchen. Both look great though. 

I booked the surveyor and the solicitor through homeward legal (https://www.homewardlegal.co.uk/) and they said before the payment that if the transaction fails due to any issues during the searches or survey, I'll be able to choose another property in the near future and I'll not be required to pay the fees for the searches or surveys again. Given this is the case, should I go ahead and identify any other issues with the house without the completion certificate?

Plus, I have also contacted the local council planning department to ask about the planning application (which was approved as per the council document shared by the agent for my reference) and to know what stages were actually inspected by the building control. They said that their surveyor can check the file and let me know about what work is still remaining and the estimation of cost that will be required to make a decision whether to go ahead or not with the purchase. 

As such I have spoken to them on the call, can I not get the indemnity insurance now? I have read on some forums that if they are aware of no completion certificate with a particular address, a purchase can no longer get this insurance. 

Also, what other certificates & services should I ask for from the agent? So far I know the following:

1. Boiler installation - building regulation certificate
2. Boiler service history
3. Gas safety certificate & service history
   

nimbo

My limited understanding is that now you’ve flagged the issue you can’t have indemnity insurance. 

So you’re choices are more limited then before. 

You don’t need to be asking the agent anything. You have solicitors. Any answers the agent give you are not covered. But if you solicitor gets the responses and they turn out not to be factually correct you then have some recourse. 

randd

nimbo said:

My limited understanding is that now you’ve flagged the issue you can’t have indemnity insurance. 

So you’re choices are more limited then before. 

You don’t need to be asking the agent anything. You have solicitors. Any answers the agent give you are not covered. But if you solicitor gets the responses and they turn out not to be factually correct you then have some recourse. 

Oh no, I shouldn't have contacted them!! 

Actually, I did pay the solicitors to open the file for my sale and purchase but just then seller's agent disclosed this new information about the no signoff from the building regulations. So, I asked my solicitors to hold the process as I asked the agent to ask the seller for the sign-off and retrospective regularisation certificate. Meanwhile, I was waiting to hear from the seller, I did contact the council to know what work was done and what inspections were carried out during the extension development. 

I made a big mistake!