Possible PCN - unusual circumstances and a lack of information?

Midgetoto

Good Afternoon,

I was hoping for some help on a slightly unusual series of circumstances surrounding a private parking notice. It is slightly convoluted and most of the usual advice on here doesn’t seem specific enough.

I’ll try to keep it concise as I can, but it may take some explaining:

1)            I work in the British military and was recently contacted by the military police regarding a letter they had been sent regarding bailiffs. The letter (which has subsequently come to me) has the following details:

·         Addressed to: Dear Building XX, Camp XXXX, Postcode XX

·         Titled: Dear Building XX,

·         Large letters: FINAL NOTICE OF DEBT RECOVERY

·         Company: Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd.

·         Their reference numbers

·         A ‘parking charge reference number’

·         The amount: £170

·         They recommend their client takes legal action

·         You can pay by blah blah blah

 

Notably:

·         There is no addressee named, literally a building

·         There is no VRN/numberplate

·         It is addressed to a communal address

·         My car was registered there in late 2018

·         There is no reference to an offence, date, time, location or vehicle

2)            Basically, the police investigated it. Called DCBL and got details of the VRN it was against and nothing more. They then searched internally using a record of cars on camp, identified me (I have moved on several locations), told me it is in regards to my car (apparently) and posted me the letter. Without calling the company I have no way of verifying, but why would the police lie? The police have passed no details to the company regarding my identity.

3)            I never received any communication from any company regarding this before, and certainly not received a NTK:

·         I have no idea where the offence is alleged to have occurred or when

·         Who the debt is with originally

·         Why it is £170

·         I was last registered at that address in early 2019

·         The address is a large communal address (100+ people). Letters addressed to ‘building X’ rather than myself would no way of being delivered, least of all now I have moved on. It is simply chance someone passed it to the military police.

4)            Therefore, I am trying to establish the best course of action and thought of you good-people. I now have been informed that there ‘might’ be an unpaid debt (unconfirmed) and be at risk of being chased through the courts:

·         I assume they are simply debt collectors, and it will be the parking company who might take legal action?

·         That company will file paperwork against the old address, as they will not be able to identify a new address?

·         I don’t think that can be against a building, so will be against me at that address, or a VRN at that address (as opposed to ‘Building A’ generically)?

·         Will they be able to get my name so I at least have a fighting chance of getting the paperwork with a sensible timeline? Or will they just serve to the address stating ‘it was registered there at the time’. I am unlikely to get letters posted to that address at all anymore, and certainly not within a sensible timeline like 28 days (and only then via the police - unlikely).

So basically – do I risk calling them to get the details and then see if I should pay it if it is valid? Should I just pay the debt company (£170 seems a lot)? Should I ignore it and risk them putting in a CCJ – which I may not know about and will have to fight using these arguments, which may not even count?

If I had a PCN or NTK I could follow the advice already on these forums, but we seem to be a step back from that. Informed advice would be greatly appreciated – please don’t simply say ‘DoNt pAy IT - ScAm’ as I need some reasoning why you feel that way.

Many Thanks for any help.

Fruitcake

Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd are debt collectors. The fourth post of the NEWBIES Announcement tells you why it is safe to ignore them.

What is the name of the PPC? That is to whom you should send an SAR, with proof of ID (but not photo ID) to flush out the original NTK.

You should also supply them with a correction notice instructing them to erase your old data and replace it with your current address for service, again with proof of ID.

Both SAR and correction notice go to the DPO of the PPC.

Never, ever 'phone a PPC or any of their agents.

Midgetoto

Fruitcake said:

Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd are debt collectors. The fourth post of the NEWBIES Announcement tells you why it is safe to ignore them.

What is the name of the PPC? That is to whom you should send an SAR, with proof of ID (but not photo ID) to flush out the original NTK.

You should also supply them with a correction notice instructing them to erase your old data and replace it with your current address for service, again with proof of ID.

Both SAR and correction notice go to the DPO of the PPC.

Never, ever 'phone a PPC or any of their agents.

I understand that I don't engage with the debt collectors and they have no power and I can ignore. What I was specifically asking advice about was the fact that there is no information in the letter about the PPC firm, vehicle it concerns, time, location, dates etc. I only know this letter is even (apparently) about my vehicle is the military police called the debt agency to find out what it was about. I have no reason to doubt them, so I am currently assuming it is, but cannot confirm this, nor get PPC details to follow your guidance without contacting them.

I could just ignore it, but then risk the actual PPC sending letters with those details to an old address as I cannot find the company details to update. 

Redx

The debt collector letter should have the name of the private parking company on it , the claimant , so check it again !! It will be on there somewhere , name of client or Claimant

Name that parking company below , and follow the above advice by fruitcake

The debt collector is powerless

Once you know who the claimant is , you can send a SAR

I wouldn't be saying that the Police are lying , they got lost in the mire , nothing more , they should have obtained the parking company details and the VRM and passed the details on

The Bailiffs part is a red herring , it's a mere debt collector letter , no Biggie , there was no offence

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6237177/dcbl-letters-forum-group-thread/p1

Fruitcake

Midgetoto said:

Fruitcake said:

Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd are debt collectors. The fourth post of the NEWBIES Announcement tells you why it is safe to ignore them.

What is the name of the PPC? That is to whom you should send an SAR, with proof of ID (but not photo ID) to flush out the original NTK.

You should also supply them with a correction notice instructing them to erase your old data and replace it with your current address for service, again with proof of ID.

Both SAR and correction notice go to the DPO of the PPC.

Never, ever 'phone a PPC or any of their agents.

I understand that I don't engage with the debt collectors and they have no power and I can ignore. What I was specifically asking advice about was the fact that there is no information in the letter about the PPC firm, vehicle it concerns, time, location, dates etc. I only know this letter is even (apparently) about my vehicle is the military police called the debt agency to find out what it was about. I have no reason to doubt them, so I am currently assuming it is, but cannot confirm this, nor get PPC details to follow your guidance without contacting them.

I could just ignore it, but then risk the actual PPC sending letters with those details to an old address as I cannot find the company details to update. 

Surely the debt crawler letter tells you for whom they are acting. You said the letter says "They recommend their client takes legal action."
Doesn't it name the client?

If not, contact DCB Ltd in writing, provide the NTK number, and ask them to tell you who the client is.

Half_way

And in case you havent guessed - do not pay, or even consider paying

Coupon-mad

If the letter doesn’t say which PPC, email and ask DCBL then send the PPC a SAR.

Even when you get the photos, no paying it!  The NEWBIES thread tells you what to do.

Midgetoto

Here is the front, the back is generic payment info. You can see why it would never find its way to an individual without the police trying to help out and calling the company, thereby associating it with a VRN. 

So it is safe to email DCBL and ask for further details (even though currently it might not even be for me?). Does that not give them a name/contact to associate this to?

D_P_Dance

They had added an unlawful £70.  Read this and complain yo your MP.

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V Excel v Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

Le_Kirk

You could try the trick of going to the web site as if to pay - but do NOT actually pay - and that might give you some more info about the PPC.

Redx

Or you can draft a list of possible parking companies and email a SAR to each one , with your name and address and see what comes back

Better still , email the DVLA to check for any enquiries about your V5C by any parking company or entity within the last few years , they will reply by royal mail

If it was a parking company and your VRM , they will tell you who and when the enquiry was made

Then email a SAR to the company that did the DVLA lookup