Lying about salary on current account

Sea_Shell

callum9999 said:

General_Grant said:

phillw said:

Sea_Shell said:

Coming from a different angle, do you have to tell your bank(s) of a material change to your income once you're a customer, if your account has merrily ticked along for years?  

Theoretically, of course! 😉

It's in most T&C. If you obtain a benefit from not telling them then it would be some kind of fraud.

Whether you are found out and whether you would face going to court is another matter. It's like copying cd's or driving at 80mph.

[Note that the question being answered related to continuing with a banking relationship, not opening a new account.]

Is informing the bank whenever you have lost or gained income really in the T&Cs? 
When already in a banking relationship which is operating satisfactorily, I do not see how continuing without telling the bank you had trebled or halved your income would be seen as "obtaining" a benefit and fraud.

I'm not sure about bank accounts, but it's pretty normal with credit cards.

I guess it could be fraudulent as you'd be withholding information that the bank needs to determine your credit worthiness (e.g. if you lose your job, rack up debts and then default) though I can't say I've ever seen any actual consequences for that.

I've just looked at the T&C for my Santander CC, and the only thing I've found that could possibly be construed as such is...

15.4 - We may decline to issue you with a replacement card where:
c) we reasonably consider that there is a significantly increased risk you will not be able to repay us.


I can't see anything about you being required to notify them of a change to your personal circumstances (income), unless you are applying for an increased limit, then obviously you'd have to give that information during the application process.

I'd be interested if anyone is able to quote actual T&C's that confirm an obligation to advise a provider of a change of circumstances.

[Deleted User]

or is it more just a case of they care about the money that goes through your account is enough to cover your direct debits etc?
I would say this, I use to worry whenever I had to speak to the bank when I was on UC with a £200 overdraft. At the latest out of work, I was always offered their equivalent of money management too.

Recently I was asked to confirm if I was in employment when trying to access online banking screen when payday was a rather fretful 2 days later.

And I don't suppose you can police it for those who do paid overtime or get a regular work income but with no pension deduction either, looks like they get a slight bigger wage when in reality there is always something not quite right anyhow.

General_Grant

callum9999 said:

General_Grant said:

phillw said:

Sea_Shell said:

Coming from a different angle, do you have to tell your bank(s) of a material change to your income once you're a customer, if your account has merrily ticked along for years?  

Theoretically, of course! 😉

It's in most T&C. If you obtain a benefit from not telling them then it would be some kind of fraud.

Whether you are found out and whether you would face going to court is another matter. It's like copying cd's or driving at 80mph.

[Note that the question being answered related to continuing with a banking relationship, not opening a new account.]

Is informing the bank whenever you have lost or gained income really in the T&Cs? 
When already in a banking relationship which is operating satisfactorily, I do not see how continuing without telling the bank you had trebled or halved your income would be seen as "obtaining" a benefit and fraud.

I'm not sure about bank accounts, but it's pretty normal with credit cards.

I guess it could be fraudulent as you'd be withholding information that the bank needs to determine your credit worthiness (e.g. if you lose your job, rack up debts and then default) though I can't say I've ever seen any actual consequences for that.

I'm not going to look at more but I have checked Barclaycard T&C which I would expect to have terms similar to many others.  The only reference to an account holder's responsibility to keep them informed was,
"Please keep us up to date with the name, residential address, email address, landline number, mobile number, nationality and date of birth for you and your additional cardholders (who must be based in the British Isles). If you (or any additional cardholders) are living overseas, please let us know so that we can contact you. "
Thankfully nothing that I could see about telling them when you had a pay rise or cut. 
(Did wonder about a date of birth changing though!)

Nearlyold

JP2019 said:

This is a hypothetical question before anybody starts screaming.

If you put your salary down as 3k a month when you only truthfully earn 1k, would this lower your internal behaviour score with a bank as they would expect to see 3k come through your account but are only seeing 1k?

I only ask this question as I know a lady who has been on benefits for years and somehow has a 3.5 grand overdraft and a credit card with a 5k limit with the bank (which I think is ludicrous). I can assure you that this woman has never worked a day in her life so there is no way she has the income to warrant that amount of credit.

I don’t imagine a bank would give you that type of credit if you put your income down as £800 a month which brings me back to my original question…

Do they care if the money running through your account matches what you list as your salary or is it more just a case of they care about the money that goes through your account is enough to cover your direct debits etc?

Please keep responses about it being fraud etc etc out of this thread as I already know all that and like I said, it’s just a hypothetical question.

Banks use "National Hunter" to check for inconsistencies in the information you provide to them compared to the information you have supplied previously to other financial institutions.

Sea_Shell

Nearlyold said:

JP2019 said:

This is a hypothetical question before anybody starts screaming.

If you put your salary down as 3k a month when you only truthfully earn 1k, would this lower your internal behaviour score with a bank as they would expect to see 3k come through your account but are only seeing 1k?

I only ask this question as I know a lady who has been on benefits for years and somehow has a 3.5 grand overdraft and a credit card with a 5k limit with the bank (which I think is ludicrous). I can assure you that this woman has never worked a day in her life so there is no way she has the income to warrant that amount of credit.

I don’t imagine a bank would give you that type of credit if you put your income down as £800 a month which brings me back to my original question…

Do they care if the money running through your account matches what you list as your salary or is it more just a case of they care about the money that goes through your account is enough to cover your direct debits etc?

Please keep responses about it being fraud etc etc out of this thread as I already know all that and like I said, it’s just a hypothetical question.

Banks use "National Hunter" to check for inconsistencies in the information you provide to them compared to the information you have supplied previously to other financial institutions.

So if you've not made (or going to make) any new applications since your circumstances may have changed, then that's not going to flag, is it?

callum9999

General_Grant said:

callum9999 said:

General_Grant said:

phillw said:

Sea_Shell said:

Coming from a different angle, do you have to tell your bank(s) of a material change to your income once you're a customer, if your account has merrily ticked along for years?  

Theoretically, of course! 😉

It's in most T&C. If you obtain a benefit from not telling them then it would be some kind of fraud.

Whether you are found out and whether you would face going to court is another matter. It's like copying cd's or driving at 80mph.

[Note that the question being answered related to continuing with a banking relationship, not opening a new account.]

Is informing the bank whenever you have lost or gained income really in the T&Cs? 
When already in a banking relationship which is operating satisfactorily, I do not see how continuing without telling the bank you had trebled or halved your income would be seen as "obtaining" a benefit and fraud.

I'm not sure about bank accounts, but it's pretty normal with credit cards.

I guess it could be fraudulent as you'd be withholding information that the bank needs to determine your credit worthiness (e.g. if you lose your job, rack up debts and then default) though I can't say I've ever seen any actual consequences for that.

I'm not going to look at more but I have checked Barclaycard T&C which I would expect to have terms similar to many others.  The only reference to an account holder's responsibility to keep them informed was,
"Please keep us up to date with the name, residential address, email address, landline number, mobile number, nationality and date of birth for you and your additional cardholders (who must be based in the British Isles). If you (or any additional cardholders) are living overseas, please let us know so that we can contact you. "
Thankfully nothing that I could see about telling them when you had a pay rise or cut. 
(Did wonder about a date of birth changing though!)

I just checked my Lloyds cards which still require it, but perhaps it's no longer normal now then? 

"As soon as possible, you must let us know if your circumstances change in a way that we may not otherwise know about and that is likely to change our assessment of your financial standing. Examples include losing your job or your income significantly reducing; say because you are off work with long-term sickness."

Though Santander does "ask" that you let them know about changes in financial circumstances - I'd assume that couldn't possibly be enforced given its in their "lending code" not in the contract. 

colsten

callum9999 said:

I just checked my Lloyds cards which still require it, but perhaps it's no longer normal now then? 

"As soon as possible, you must let us know if your circumstances change in a way that we may not otherwise know about and that is likely to change our assessment of your financial standing. Examples include losing your job or your income significantly reducing; say because you are off work with long-term sickness."

That must have been written by a numpty. Just because I lose / terminate my job doesn't necessarily mean I have less money than before. Nor does having a job or not being sick mean you handle your finances responsibly. 

I can fully accept that banks want to make an initial risk assessment before they approve you for a credit facility (current account, credit card, loan, mortgage) but once you are approved, all that matters is how you fulfill your obligations you may then have with that bank. Only if you default on any repayments, or are found to be involved in shady business, can they alter or terminate their business relationship with you. Otherwise they should keep their nose out of your financial (and other) affairs.

Nearlyold

Sea_Shell said:

Nearlyold said:

JP2019 said:

This is a hypothetical question before anybody starts screaming.

If you put your salary down as 3k a month when you only truthfully earn 1k, would this lower your internal behaviour score with a bank as they would expect to see 3k come through your account but are only seeing 1k?

I only ask this question as I know a lady who has been on benefits for years and somehow has a 3.5 grand overdraft and a credit card with a 5k limit with the bank (which I think is ludicrous). I can assure you that this woman has never worked a day in her life so there is no way she has the income to warrant that amount of credit.

I don’t imagine a bank would give you that type of credit if you put your income down as £800 a month which brings me back to my original question…

Do they care if the money running through your account matches what you list as your salary or is it more just a case of they care about the money that goes through your account is enough to cover your direct debits etc?

Please keep responses about it being fraud etc etc out of this thread as I already know all that and like I said, it’s just a hypothetical question.

Banks use "National Hunter" to check for inconsistencies in the information you provide to them compared to the information you have supplied previously to other financial institutions.

So if you've not made (or going to make) any new applications since your circumstances may have changed, then that's not going to flag, is it?

Yes that's correct - if you've not made any new applications to any of the ninety or so financial Institutions who use National Hunter there will be no anomalies to identify, or indeed any need for any of the financial institutions you haven't applied to to run a check through National Hunter on an application you haven't made.