SEISS 5 Grant Confusion

Pennywise

Ironically, the group of people who've benefitted the most from the covid support schemes are holiday let owners.  Assuming their properties were properly registered for business rates, they got £10k per property at the start.  Then they've also been eligible for the local council ARG grants since, which vary according to which council area they're located in.  

Looking at my client base, the average "per property" seems to be around £28,000 to date, with potentially more to come.  Of course, these have been able to open at various times during the pandemic, often fully booked due to people wanting staycations etc.  Those with their own "covid secure" access have been able to operate throughout, as have those offering accommodation to key workers, those isolating, etc.  

Every single holiday letting client I have is reporting much higher profits than normal, simply because of the covid grants.  Most would have had a pretty decent year anyway due to being fully booked for those months when they could open.  

I have one client with a row of holiday lets from a barn conversion.  Each property is independent, so each was registered individually for business rates.  He got the £10k per property, plus all the subsequent local authority ARG grants per property.  Just done his accounts, and he got over £100k in grants.  His "normal" gross income from the holiday lets is less than that in a normal year!  So he was "up" just because the grants, but his actual letting income was around £50k on top.

Conversely, I also have some guest house clients.  They received the same grants, but obviously only one grant of £10k to cover the entire property, so the same £28k in total, and as they didn't have separate access, they've been really hit as they couldn't open for most of the year (prohibited due to not having separate access in the lockdown months).  Their property based overheads are similar, but they only received a fraction of the grants.

It's crazy how some businesses have done so well, yet others have been excluded.  Talk about luck of the draw!  

I think the lack of parity/logic in the covid support schemes has highlighted the stupid/unnecessary complexity of the tax system and I hope that it acts as a catalyst for change to deal with all the anomolies of the tax system which have fed into the anomalies of the covid support scheme too.  

JJC1956

Back to the Nitty Gritty, has anyone received SEISS 5 yet?
I haven’t even received an email from HMRC my missus has had 4 but only telling her she MAY be entitled, no dates or anything

Daz2009

JJC1956 said:

Back to the Nitty Gritty, has anyone received SEISS 5 yet?
I haven’t even received an email from HMRC my missus has had 4 but only telling her she MAY be entitled, no dates or anything

I can't apply for it until 3/8.
I'm a bit confused,the email says they want turnover from april to march but my accounting year is from january to january so looks like I have some maths to do

Clark1968

I applied for it yesterday. Relatively painless process. However I feel the wording of the grant could be better.

Instead of saying its for 1st May to 30th September and is for an average of 80% for a 3 month period, Surely an average of 48% for a 5 month period would be better?

MalMonroe

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

You got robbed for the extra months. In a nutshell. If they had tried that with the employment furlough there would have been an outcry.

I don't know how getting a less generous free handout can be regarded as "robbed"?

lack of parity , why not do the same to people furloughed? They did what they did because they could get away with it. The is no justification for giving a "less generous"  free handout. 

Maybe robbed is a bit strong. However its not a fair situation.

When you ask small children whether they would prefer to have one sweet if other children get two, or for every child to get no sweets at all, nearly all of them say they would rather everybody had no sweets at all.

Really? I'd like to see a copy of that research paper, if you could put a link please. 

Jeremy535897

MalMonroe said:

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

You got robbed for the extra months. In a nutshell. If they had tried that with the employment furlough there would have been an outcry.

I don't know how getting a less generous free handout can be regarded as "robbed"?

lack of parity , why not do the same to people furloughed? They did what they did because they could get away with it. The is no justification for giving a "less generous"  free handout. 

Maybe robbed is a bit strong. However its not a fair situation.

When you ask small children whether they would prefer to have one sweet if other children get two, or for every child to get no sweets at all, nearly all of them say they would rather everybody had no sweets at all.

Really? I'd like to see a copy of that research paper, if you could put a link please. 

There's a lot of stuff on inequity aversion. Here's an example:
https://depts.washington.edu/uwkids/Shaw.Olson.2012.pdf

I can't remember offhand where I saw the particular reference I mentioned, but some adults find it hard to shake off. I remember people who I managed being more concerned about how their pay compared to others than the absolute amount they received, if they perceived unfairness. 

JJC1956

Jeremy535897 said:

MalMonroe said:

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

You got robbed for the extra months. In a nutshell. If they had tried that with the employment furlough there would have been an outcry.

I don't know how getting a less generous free handout can be regarded as "robbed"?

lack of parity , why not do the same to people furloughed? They did what they did because they could get away with it. The is no justification for giving a "less generous"  free handout. 

Maybe robbed is a bit strong. However its not a fair situation.

When you ask small children whether they would prefer to have one sweet if other children get two, or for every child to get no sweets at all, nearly all of them say they would rather everybody had no sweets at all.

Really? I'd like to see a copy of that research paper, if you could put a link please. 

There's a lot of stuff on inequity aversion. Here's an example:
https://depts.washington.edu/uwkids/Shaw.Olson.2012.pdf

I can't remember offhand where I saw the particular reference I mentioned, but some adults find it hard to shake off. I remember people who I managed being more concerned about how their pay compared to others than the absolute amount they received, if they perceived unfairness. 

Life in General I’m afraid, as Yorkshire people say, ‘There’s Now’t as queer as folk’ I’m a Londoner and I can’t fathom out why a couple of my staff turn down evenings and weekends at much higher rates of pay because they earn less than some of my other staff that do a completely different job to them (at the same hourly rate) which they have no interest whatsoever in doing.

MattMattMattUK

JJC1956 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

MalMonroe said:

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

You got robbed for the extra months. In a nutshell. If they had tried that with the employment furlough there would have been an outcry.

I don't know how getting a less generous free handout can be regarded as "robbed"?

lack of parity , why not do the same to people furloughed? They did what they did because they could get away with it. The is no justification for giving a "less generous"  free handout. 

Maybe robbed is a bit strong. However its not a fair situation.

When you ask small children whether they would prefer to have one sweet if other children get two, or for every child to get no sweets at all, nearly all of them say they would rather everybody had no sweets at all.

Really? I'd like to see a copy of that research paper, if you could put a link please. 

There's a lot of stuff on inequity aversion. Here's an example:
https://depts.washington.edu/uwkids/Shaw.Olson.2012.pdf

I can't remember offhand where I saw the particular reference I mentioned, but some adults find it hard to shake off. I remember people who I managed being more concerned about how their pay compared to others than the absolute amount they received, if they perceived unfairness. 

Life in General I’m afraid, as Yorkshire people say, ‘There’s Now’t as queer as folk’ I’m a Londoner and I can’t fathom out why a couple of my staff turn down evenings and weekends at much higher rates of pay because they earn less than some of my other staff that do a completely different job to them (at the same hourly rate) which they have no interest whatsoever in doing.

Many people are highly irrational and governed by their emotions, indeed being rational is the exception rather than the rule amongst the general population.