SEISS 5 Grant Confusion

TerryMc07

Can anyone explain this?

The 5th SEISS grant covers the period between 1st May and 30th September 2021 - 5 Months

According to HMRC/Gov.UK we'll be able to claim a grant worth 80% (or 30%) of THREE MONTHS average trading profits.

What has happened to the other two months?

Jeremy535897

The grants were originally said to be linked to specific time periods when first introduced in March 2020. That linkage disappeared a long time ago. 

justwhat

You got robbed for the extra months. In a nutshell. If they had tried that with the employment furlough there would have been an outcry.

Jeremy535897

justwhat said:

You got robbed for the extra months. In a nutshell. If they had tried that with the employment furlough there would have been an outcry.

I don't know how getting a less generous free handout can be regarded as "robbed"?

JJC1956

Two months last year and Three months this year, I think HMRC should have worded it differently and just told the Self-Employed, they would be receiving payments at irregular intervals.

Q Have HMRC started paying out SEISS 5 yet as I haven’t received any notification whatsoever? Plus I am now paying amongst other things, Furlough top up costs with ZERO income.

justwhat

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

You got robbed for the extra months. In a nutshell. If they had tried that with the employment furlough there would have been an outcry.

I don't know how getting a less generous free handout can be regarded as "robbed"?

lack of parity , why not do the same to people furloughed? They did what they did because they could get away with it. The is no justification for giving a "less generous"  free handout. 

Maybe robbed is a bit strong. However its not a fair situation.

Jeremy535897

justwhat said:

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

You got robbed for the extra months. In a nutshell. If they had tried that with the employment furlough there would have been an outcry.

I don't know how getting a less generous free handout can be regarded as "robbed"?

lack of parity , why not do the same to people furloughed? They did what they did because they could get away with it. The is no justification for giving a "less generous"  free handout. 

Maybe robbed is a bit strong. However its not a fair situation.

When you ask small children whether they would prefer to have one sweet if other children get two, or for every child to get no sweets at all, nearly all of them say they would rather everybody had no sweets at all.

MattMattMattUK

justwhat said:

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

You got robbed for the extra months. In a nutshell. If they had tried that with the employment furlough there would have been an outcry.

I don't know how getting a less generous free handout can be regarded as "robbed"?

lack of parity, 

As in many things, pre-Covid I was an additional rate taxpayer, with no personal allowance and a 45% rate of income tax on some of my earnings, parity would be we all have no personal allowance and pay 45% on an equal proportion of our income, do you think it is parity that I had to pay a higher percentage of my income in tax?

justwhat said:

why not do the same to people furloughed? 

There could be a whole host of arguments, self-employed pay less taxation (lower NI, no er's NI), self-employed were allowed to continue working (which most did, even if at a lower rate than pre-Covid), less verifiable income. 

justwhat said:
They did what they did because they could get away with it. The is no justification for giving a "less generous"  free handout. 

They did what they did in a bad situation, there are plenty of justifications for it being "less generous", you just do not like them as it means some people got lower amounts of handout.

justwhat said:

Maybe robbed is a bit strong. However its not a fair situation.

Robbed is entirely inaccurate. Life is not fair, but fairness where you are demanding two different groups of people get the same in handouts when one pays considerably less in in tax is irrational.

*I say this as a limited company director largely remunerated via dividend, someone who had my income drop by 92% in 20-21 vs 19-20, who got nothing from the government and where the limited option to furlough myself was in no way viable, all that despite paying in tens of thousands in tax every year in previous years. So yes it would have been nice if the government had wanted to hand me a few tens of thousands, or even a few thousand, but it is nothing to do with "fairness" and there are many justifications for the rules that and systems that were put in place. 

JJC1956

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

You got robbed for the extra months. In a nutshell. If they had tried that with the employment furlough there would have been an outcry.

I don't know how getting a less generous free handout can be regarded as "robbed"?

lack of parity , why not do the same to people furloughed? They did what they did because they could get away with it. The is no justification for giving a "less generous"  free handout. 

Maybe robbed is a bit strong. However its not a fair situation.

When you ask small children whether they would prefer to have one sweet if other children get two, or for every child to get no sweets at all, nearly all of them say they would rather everybody had no sweets at all.

Yes, and they all grew up to work for HMRC 😁
In all seriousness, last year people that were Furloughed were allowed to earn up to £2,500 per month, self employed people that employed these people were allowed to earn up to £2,500 per months but with 2 months missing 😳

Pennywise

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

You got robbed for the extra months. In a nutshell. If they had tried that with the employment furlough there would have been an outcry.

I don't know how getting a less generous free handout can be regarded as "robbed"?

It's the lack of fairness that's been the main problem with all the covid support schemes.  (Not to mention lack of logic and common sense!).

Jeremy535897

No system could be entirely fair and quickly put into effect. It is not fair, for example, that many self employed people continued to work throughout the pandemic, and received more in grants (especially if they got the property based grants as well) than they lost in profit. It is not fair that an employee furloughed on 40 hours a week went part time in June 2020 and yet still receives furlough based on 40 hours a week (or indeed the opposite situation). Personally, I think the government did a very creditable job in getting so much help to so many people, and I can say this dispassionately as someone who has neither received, nor expected, a single penny of support.