COPE reduction issue from SP

xylophone

If WTW state that the RTZ Scheme was contracted out in the period that you  were a member, then you could ask them (on the  basis that they have stated

https://www.willistowerswatson.com/en-GB/Insights/2019/02/questions-you-are-too-afraid-to-ask-about-gmp-equalisation

For a defined benefit occupational pension scheme, it was not possible to contract out on a member-by-member basis. Schemes either needed to have all members contracted out or have all members “contracted in” – i.e. all members received the additional state pension as well as scheme benefits.)

how it happens that you  are shown as never having been contracted out.

xylophone

Very many thanks for the information - interesting to come across a contracted in salary related  DB pension scheme.

xylophone

Very many thanks for the information 

Where has it gone? Surely I was not seeing things? Did you post a photo of the confirmation from WTW that the RTZ scheme was contracted in?

eastcorkram

xylophone said:

Very many thanks for the information 

Where has it gone? Surely I was not seeing things? Did you post a photo of the confirmation from WTW that the RTZ scheme was contracted in?

I did. Then I thought it a bit unfair to still have the name of the guy who sent it on there. 

Eldi_Dos

When you joined RTZ did you use a UK address to apply from and if your job entailed travel what passport did RTZ see.There may have been some administrative quirk about how that effects your contracted in/out status.

Frey_Bentos

1988 Sounds about right. Its very possible that was when the choice to choose a personal pension or serps or stay in the DB scheme was presented to me. I would not ever have agreed to leave the DB scheme, that pays at age 60 for me and was my target retirement age as a youngster, these are before the days of "equality".
So Im going to have to satisfy myself on this by finding either a payslip from the ark or by finding somewhere online the literature that was presented to me in 1988 - as it appears that what was explained to me was either incorrect (I thought i was signing up to stay in DB scheme and pay increased NI contributions to be in or stay in serps- which seems to not actually have been an option) or i have misunderstood. If ive got it wrong then so be it, so long as my record is right, I will accept that.
Just googled the name of the ex finance manager there and he passed away in 2014.

On the NHS pension front, I do have a final salary pension due at age 60, its small as my earnings were laughable (I didnt get a decent uni/technical education until I was in my late twenties and then my earnings increased ) but its still worth having.

xylophone

You said

In 1983 I joined the NHS and at age 18 superannuation kicked in. I stayed with the NHS until 1995.
During that time, i was taken into a room with the financial manager and ASKED if I wanted to contract out of serps. I absolutely 100% said NO, I want to stay in. I signed the form, handed it over and that was that.

Why would he ask if you wanted to contract out of SERPS when (by virtue of being a member of the NHS Pension Scheme) you were already contracted out of SERPS)?

Are you sure that you weren't asked to confirm that you wished to stay in the Scheme and thus would remain contracted out of SERPS?

With regard to the COPE, are you sure that this has been reduced to  £6.67?

You were some twelve (?) years in the Scheme and even for a person on a modest salary this seems on the low side.

Perhaps later in the year you could check your state pension forecast again?

Frey_Bentos

Xylophone, as stated previously, this wasnt how the options were presented to me, its as if I stayed in the NHS scheme (I definitely did that and have the pension forecast which backs up my membership) but also theres the question of SERPS - perhaps ive made a mistake, perhaps I havent, the record keeping of various authorities seems ludicrously missing, the law states they dont need to keep records but the effect on us is significant if things get recorded incorrectly  ot if information is missing.
I take from this one very important lesson - keep all your pay slips, forever! keep all your coding notices, all letters from HMRC etc and even if you keep them digitally, keep them!
I have uploaded a copy of the page where i think (if im reading it right) the COPE amount appears to have been reduced to six quid down from 21 quid - i will be keeping an eye on my gov forecast but no change there yet, it still shows 21.
Interestingly, my record shows lots of periods where the original data from the NI records showed i did not pay class A have now been corrected and show I did indeed pay it.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

I think this thread has got somewhat waylaid from its original purpose (COPE reduction issue from SP).

You are getting more than the standard new State Pension.

You paid less National Insurance than normal for a number of years

You have an occupational pension from this period.

I'm not sure where the £80/month you think were losing is being lost from, perhaps you can clarify?

Silvertabby

Frey_Bentos said:

Xylophone, as stated previously, this wasnt how the options were presented to me, its as if I stayed in the NHS scheme (I definitely did that and have the pension forecast which backs up my membership) but also theres the question of SERPS - perhaps ive made a mistake, perhaps I havent, the record keeping of various authorities seems ludicrously missing, the law states they dont need to keep records but the effect on us is significant if things get recorded incorrectly  ot if information is missing.
I take from this one very important lesson - keep all your pay slips, forever! keep all your coding notices, all letters from HMRC etc and even if you keep them digitally, keep them!
I have uploaded a copy of the page where i think (if im reading it right) the COPE amount appears to have been reduced to six quid down from 21 quid - i will be keeping an eye on my gov forecast but no change there yet, it still shows 21.
Interestingly, my record shows lots of periods where the original data from the NI records showed i did not pay class A have now been corrected and show I did indeed pay it.

£6.67 is your GMP, not your COPE.  Two different things.