Lease or buy a second hand car

tel10

Hello. We live in London and need to get 2 vehicles that are ULEZ compliant. We are trying to figure out whether to buy 2nd hand ones (hybrid/electric) or to lease both and what is better value long term. 

Thanks

searchlight123

what is your budget and expected yearly mileage? lease / pcp costs vary considerably if you do 5,000 miles a year or 25,000 miles a year as you are paying for the depreciation part of the new car - so a 3 year old car with 15,000 miles will be worth considerably more than the same car with 75,000 miles on it after 3 years, so the lease / pcp costs will be a lot less on the low mileage car.

Penelopa.Pitstop

To compare buying and leasing you have to compare total cost over specific period. In case of buying, use forecasted depreciation amount, in case of leasing, total cost of leasing.

Some cars are cheaper to buy, some cars are cheaper to lease. Also, no good leasing deals now.

Grumpy_chap

tel10 said:

Hello. We live in London and need to get 2 vehicles that are ULEZ compliant. We are trying to figure out whether to buy 2nd hand ones (hybrid/electric) or to lease both and what is better value long term. 

Thanks

You need to buy two vehicles, but have not said how much mileage you do, total annual mileage (though I suspect it will not be that extortionate given living in London unless you have a long commute). 
How big do the cars need to be? 
What budget do you have? 
How long do you intend to keep a car for?

With that information, you can start to make choices.

If you buy, and get petrol, some quite old cars qualify as ULEZ compliant - my 2007 Focus is - and can be purchased for relatively low amounts.

There are some good lease deals still available - there was one thread recently for a car at less than £173 all-in even considering the upfront payment and with low excess mileage rates.

BOWFER

Unlikely you'll be able to lease a used car, never seen that.
PCP on used is common though.

AdrianC

ULEZ requires petrol to be Euro4 - 2005ish onwards - and diesel to be Euro6 - 2014ish onwards. That's all.

Do you REALLY require two cars, if you live in central London (and, yes, I am calling anywhere inside the circulars "central")...? The best public transport by far in the country...

BOWFER

AdrianC said:

ULEZ requires petrol to be Euro4 - 2005ish onwards - and diesel to be Euro6 - 2014ish onwards. That's all.

Do you REALLY require two cars, if you live in central London (and, yes, I am calling anywhere inside the circulars "central")...? The best public transport by far in the country...

Man, the fuss people in Aberdeen are making about the town centre being made a LEZ zone in two years.
By which time the oldest cars allowed will be 18 years old.
And their survey has shown that even if it was introduced right now. nearly 90% of cars already driving into the zone would still be allowed.
People just don't check, they panic
I argued with one guy on FB because he moaned none of his cars or his motorbike would be allowed.
Motorbikes are exempt....!!!

Grumpy_chap

BOWFER said:

By which time the oldest cars allowed will be 18 years old.

Where will future classic / historic cars come from if no-one is allowed a car over 18 yo?

AdrianC

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

By which time the oldest cars allowed will be 18 years old.

Where will future classic / historic cars come from if no-one is allowed a car over 18 yo?

The oldest cars allowed within the ULEZ. The north and south circulars of London, and a few other very small city-centre areas.

Oh, and over-40 Historic taxed cars are allowed, too.

Grumpy_chap

AdrianC said:

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

By which time the oldest cars allowed will be 18 years old.

Where will future classic / historic cars come from if no-one is allowed a car over 18 yo?

The oldest cars allowed within the ULEZ. The north and south circulars of London, and a few other very small city-centre areas.

Oh, and over-40 Historic taxed cars are allowed, too.

It is only a matter of time before ULEZ-type rules expand to cover the whole country, and the criteria will become ever more restricted, so the oldest age around 18 yo ( 7 for diesel) will never role out to an older age still, maybe 20 ish max.

So, cars over 20 get priced off the road, but can come back out in another 20 years as "historic".  Where do these cars go for that 20 years?

It is already being suggested by Khan that the ULEZ goes out to the M25, which will affect many living in outer London with cars such as my 1997 Fiesta.

AdrianC

Grumpy_chap said:

AdrianC said:

Grumpy_chap said:

BOWFER said:

By which time the oldest cars allowed will be 18 years old.

Where will future classic / historic cars come from if no-one is allowed a car over 18 yo?

The oldest cars allowed within the ULEZ. The north and south circulars of London, and a few other very small city-centre areas.

Oh, and over-40 Historic taxed cars are allowed, too.

It is only a matter of time before ULEZ-type rules expand to cover the whole country

It really isn't. Central London has very localised poor air quality issues due to NOx.

In 2016, the capital breached the annual NOx emission caps just one week into the year.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jan/08/london-takes-just-one-week-to-breach-annual-air-pollution-limits

In 2018, it took a whole month...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/30/london-reaches-legal-air-pollution-limit-just-one-month-into-the-new-year

and the criteria will become ever more restricted, so the oldest age around 18 yo ( 7 for diesel) will never role out to an older age still

Euro6 is still the current level of emissions for brand new cars.
Euro4 petrol capped NOx emissions at the same level as Euro6 diesel, 0.08g/km.

So, cars over 20 get priced off the road, but can come back out in another 20 years as "historic". Where do these cars go for that 20 years?

There is rather a lot of the UK outside London, y'know. But the average age of a car at scrapping in the UK is just under 14yrs. The average age of cars on the road is 8yo.

It is already being suggested by Khan that the ULEZ goes out to the M25

The Mayor of London only controls London. Not everywhere inside the M25 is London.

The entirety of the London boroughs are already under emission controls, and have been for 13 years - the LEZ. But that only applies to commercial vehicles, so you probably aren't worried about it, because it doesn't directly affect you.

which will affect many living in outer London with cars such as my 1997 Fiesta.

1997 was the start of Euro 2 emissions.

Euro2 had no explicit NOx cap - that came in 2000 with Euro3, at 0.5g/km for diesels, 0.15g/km for petrols. That's nearly twice the ULEZ cap for petrols - and 6.25x for diesels...

Euro2 did have a NOx+HC (unburnt hydrocarbon) cap at 0.7g/km for diesel (reduced to 0.56 with Euro3) and 0.5g for petrol - there should be virtually no unburnt hydrocarbons in a catted petrol.