This House market is exhausting and frustrating

graeme16

RelievedSheff said:

graeme16 said:

MobileSaver said:

graeme16 said:

We are on a combined family income of approximately £100K with substantial savings and we are struggling. I cant comprehend how people earning the national average are managing. We are completely failing generations of kids here

The simple fact is that last year (during the biggest crisis in a generation) over a million people did somehow manage it and the majority of those will not have had a combined income of £100k. The same happened the year before that and the year before that etc... most ordinary working people are managing to buy a home and happily live their lives.

It's a mystery how you can be struggling on earnings of £100k with substantial savings...

I have zero debt, drive a 6 year old diesel Clio with >100k miles and generally live within my means. I have just sold up in Leeds and looking to move north to 'the golden triangle' due to the quality of state schools being vastly better there than where we were living. Bear in mind these are still not exceptional schools, just what I consider to be a minimum for my children. We have one child and will hopefully have another in the next 12+ months. I essentially need in excess of £400k to buy a very average 3 bed house in this area and if I don't want to be p*****g money down the drain in interest on the mortgage I need at least 20% (£80K) to get the best rate. 

You are correct, on our £100K salary we can just about buy a house in the area, save for retirement, save for our kids future (substantial cost these days) ensure we have an emergency fund, pay all bills, afford some modest annual holidays etc. etc.

However, please tell me how the younger population who are earning average wages are supposed to do that? As I said, current monetary policy is failing generations of kids. I am certainly very worried for the future of my children . . . .

They are 'managing' by taking on monstrous amounts of debt in the form of 40 year mortgages. The majority wont even understand how much extra interest they are paying when compared to taking out a 25 year mortgage. If only we taught financial literacy in school . . . . 

They buy in cheaper areas and then as and when finances improve they move to a better area and then a better area after that. Much the same as people have always done.

We'll see how you would like having your children move out of your area to raise there kids because they cannot afford to buy a house there. 

Newnoel

RelievedSheff said:

Newnoel said:

grumiofoundation said:

Newnoel said:

£100k isnt a lot if you have 2+ kids and need to pay school fees, etc.

Very, very few people need to pay school fees. 

If you want a decent education and the best start for your kids, you do

That just isn't true. Certainly not in the UK.

The facts don't back that up.

Put simply, spending per state primary school child is £6,100 in England, while (in my experience as a parent of three kids) private school fees are well over double that level.

This sort of additional investment in your children provides them with a wealth of life opportunities that are simply not available to children in a decent state school, if you can find one.

   

lookstraightahead

MobileSaver said:

lookstraightahead said:

add children, debts, bills (likely commuting), living expenses,

Then you buy a new car and interest rates go up, you're struggling.

Newnoel said:

£100k isnt a lot if you have 2+ kids and need to pay school fees, etc.

Thank you both for confirming exactly the point I was making; those are choices not struggles.

If you earn 100k you have to work, and along with that usually are commuting expenses and bills and possibly a car. Often by the time you earn 100k you already have children. We all have general living expenses. Interest rates we don't know about. If you take away these things, you take away the 100k so your argument is a moot point.

the choice is to move somewhere cheaper and earn less and reduce your expenses. But then you won't earn 100k.

I didn't make the second comment, which is totally off topic and is a real choice (although sometimes a good one).
I also would never push my multiples. Disaster - lose 100k job and you're unlikely to find another one any time soon. Could never understand this with lending risk. Why those on higher salaries can borrow more. So much more unlikely to get another job on the same salary.

tooldle

graeme16 said:

MobileSaver said:

graeme16 said:

We are on a combined family income of approximately £100K with substantial savings and we are struggling. I cant comprehend how people earning the national average are managing. We are completely failing generations of kids here

The simple fact is that last year (during the biggest crisis in a generation) over a million people did somehow manage it and the majority of those will not have had a combined income of £100k. The same happened the year before that and the year before that etc... most ordinary working people are managing to buy a home and happily live their lives.

It's a mystery how you can be struggling on earnings of £100k with substantial savings...

I have zero debt, drive a 6 year old diesel Clio with >100k miles and generally live within my means. I have just sold up in Leeds and looking to move north to 'the golden triangle' due to the quality of state schools being vastly better there than where we were living. Bear in mind these are still not exceptional schools, just what I consider to be a minimum for my children. We have one child and will hopefully have another in the next 12+ months. I essentially need in excess of £400k to buy a very average 3 bed house in this area and if I don't want to be p*****g money down the drain in interest on the mortgage I need at least 20% (£80K) to get the best rate. 

You are correct, on our £100K salary we can just about buy a house in the area, save for retirement, save for our kids future (substantial cost these days) ensure we have an emergency fund, pay all bills, afford some modest annual holidays etc. etc.

However, please tell me how the younger population who are earning average wages are supposed to do that? As I said, current monetary policy is failing generations of kids. I am certainly very worried for the future of my children . . . .

They are 'managing' by taking on monstrous amounts of debt in the form of 40 year mortgages. The majority wont even understand how much extra interest they are paying when compared to taking out a 25 year mortgage. If only we taught financial literacy in school . . . . 

I get your point i really do. But, there is nothing new about this situation.
I am in my early '50's with an older sibling. Sibling stayed in the area near to my folks. With a supermarket job he has never managed to save any money and was in private rented for many years. He is now in council accommodation. Myself, i moved away. I took the opportunities available to me and now live mortgage free with a similar household income to yours. 
Life is not equal and many of my contemporaries from my school days are still in rented accommodation. 
Market prices are one of several factors affecting possibility. The others include, location, ability to relocate, job and careers prospects, health etc. Some  of us (myself included) think nothing of moving several hundred miles from close relatives, others cannot countenance being further away than the next street). 
Sometimes unexpected things happen. In my first professional role, the company announced its intention to shut two UK sites. For any staff who wanted, there was a guaranteed job at one of their other sites. For a period of two years, a rent allowance would be paid along with air tickets to return home twice in each year. Out of just over 40 staff, only 4 took this up. 2 were long standing staff nearing retirement age, 1 was a new graduate and the other was in a secretarial post. The older two boosted their pensions and the younger two boosted their savings. Most of the other 36 sat around complaining, eventually were made redundant and struggled to find decent jobs within their acceptable travel parameters. The key aspect being the ability to spot an opportunity when it arises. 

RelievedSheff

graeme16 said:

RelievedSheff said:

graeme16 said:

MobileSaver said:

graeme16 said:

We are on a combined family income of approximately £100K with substantial savings and we are struggling. I cant comprehend how people earning the national average are managing. We are completely failing generations of kids here

The simple fact is that last year (during the biggest crisis in a generation) over a million people did somehow manage it and the majority of those will not have had a combined income of £100k. The same happened the year before that and the year before that etc... most ordinary working people are managing to buy a home and happily live their lives.

It's a mystery how you can be struggling on earnings of £100k with substantial savings...

I have zero debt, drive a 6 year old diesel Clio with >100k miles and generally live within my means. I have just sold up in Leeds and looking to move north to 'the golden triangle' due to the quality of state schools being vastly better there than where we were living. Bear in mind these are still not exceptional schools, just what I consider to be a minimum for my children. We have one child and will hopefully have another in the next 12+ months. I essentially need in excess of £400k to buy a very average 3 bed house in this area and if I don't want to be p*****g money down the drain in interest on the mortgage I need at least 20% (£80K) to get the best rate. 

You are correct, on our £100K salary we can just about buy a house in the area, save for retirement, save for our kids future (substantial cost these days) ensure we have an emergency fund, pay all bills, afford some modest annual holidays etc. etc.

However, please tell me how the younger population who are earning average wages are supposed to do that? As I said, current monetary policy is failing generations of kids. I am certainly very worried for the future of my children . . . .

They are 'managing' by taking on monstrous amounts of debt in the form of 40 year mortgages. The majority wont even understand how much extra interest they are paying when compared to taking out a 25 year mortgage. If only we taught financial literacy in school . . . . 

They buy in cheaper areas and then as and when finances improve they move to a better area and then a better area after that. Much the same as people have always done.

We'll see how you would like having your children move out of your area to raise there kids because they cannot afford to buy a house there. 

As we don't have children it won't be an issue for us.

That said we have family scattered all over the UK. Gone are the days when family members all lived on the same road  

SpiderLegs

Newnoel said:

RelievedSheff said:

Newnoel said:

grumiofoundation said:

Newnoel said:

£100k isnt a lot if you have 2+ kids and need to pay school fees, etc.

Very, very few people need to pay school fees. 

If you want a decent education and the best start for your kids, you do

That just isn't true. Certainly not in the UK.

The facts don't back that up.

Put simply, spending per state primary school child is £6,100 in England, while (in my experience as a parent of three kids) private school fees are well over double that level.

This sort of additional investment in your children provides them with a wealth of life opportunities that are simply not available to children in a decent state school, if you can find one.

   

The facts are that 93% of children are not being educated in private schools.
From that one statistic, your opinion that none of these children have a wealth of life opportunities, appears to be a little unlikely.

davilown

£100k income is plenty to buy a suitably sized property, just maybe not in an area on the ‘in’ list.
 People make choices - new car every few years, mobiles, yearly holidays etc. Individuals don’t need these, they want them and are happy to pay for it. However, they can’t moan when they can’t afford to buy a house.

We had kids as teenagers, now in our early 40s they have (or very shortly) will be leaving home.

We had no money in our 20s as I made the mistake of getting loans etc to ‘keep up with the Jones’s’, and it took 5 years of extra hours and my oh going full time to pay it off.

We bought our first house 10 years ago, moved to our ‘dream’ home 4 years ago. Took a look at life and decided that we didn’t want to keep working FT, so sold up and bought a cheap semi. Mortgage free is bliss!

As for private education, it’s an individual thing. Some kids will thrive, some won’t. The majority of the time it comes down to the parents.

Gavin83

A lot of things mentioned on this thread are luxuries. A brand new car, foreign holidays, eating out a lot, new stuff, all luxuries. Private education for your children is definitely a luxury. Having multiple children or even children at all is a luxury to a degree. I don't really think you can expect all these, plus expect to be able to afford a lovely big 4 bed detached house in an amazing area. Very few people can afford everything they want and life is about choosing what your priorities are. I don't really think people can expect everything and complain about how hard life is on a £100k salary.

To answer the question people on lower salaries have lower expectations. They'll be able to afford less luxuries but if someone wants a house (and not a top end house) and they're willing to cut back elsewhere they can afford a house on even a modest salary.

Also anyone living somewhere expensive (South East for example) earning minimum wage or close to it is insane. Move somewhere cheaper. Places like London are only worth it if you're earning a London salary.

MobileSaver

graeme16 said:

MobileSaver said:

It's a mystery how you can be struggling on earnings of £100k with substantial savings...

looking to move north to 'the golden triangle' ... We have one child and will hopefully have another in the next 12+ months. I essentially need in excess of £400k to buy a very average 3 bed house in this area

You are correct, on our £100K salary we can just about buy a house in the area, save for retirement, save for our kids future (substantial cost these days) ensure we have an emergency fund, pay all bills, afford some modest annual holidays etc. etc.

Again, you have proven my point perfectly.

You already have a child, are complaining how expensive children are, want to live in one of the most expensive areas in Yorkshire, yet you plan to have yet another (expensive) child and are claiming you are struggling ... that's not struggling, that is you making choices to essentially live beyond your means.

graeme16 said:

However, please tell me how the younger population who are earning average wages are supposed to do that? As I said, current monetary policy is failing generations of kids. I am certainly very worried for the future of my children . . . .

The younger population who are earning average wages are supposed to do that the same way almost all of us did when we we first started off in adult life; they buy smaller cheaper houses in cheaper areas, not a three bed detached in the Golden Triangle!

MobileSaver

graeme16 said:

RelievedSheff said:

They buy in cheaper areas and then as and when finances improve they move to a better area and then a better area after that. Much the same as people have always done.

We'll see how you would like having your children move out of your area to raise there kids because they cannot afford to buy a house there. 

That's a really silly thing to say.

You cannot genuinely believe that everyone's children should be entitled to live in the same area as their parents?!?!

We live in a market economy so if your kids can afford to buy in the area then great, if not then they'll have to live somewhere else... You don't have to be Einstein to work out that with a growing population it's literally physically impossible for everyone's kids to be able to live in the same area as their parents.

lookstraightahead said:

MobileSaver said:

Thank you both for confirming exactly the point I was making; those are choices not struggles.

If you earn 100k you have to work, and along with that usually are commuting expenses and bills and possibly a car. Often by the time you earn 100k you already have children. We all have general living expenses. Interest rates we don't know about. If you take away these things, you take away the 100k so your argument is a moot point.

On the contrary, you have ignored the fundamental fact that having children is a choice. Before I moved to Wales, our combined income was £100k, we lived in a mortgaged four bed detached in a very desirable area inside the M25 and would fly Upper Class to the States for holidays. Life was great and not remotely a struggle; the big difference, we chose not to have children.

It's perfectly normal for those who have kids to want the best for them but to choose to have kids and then complain it's a struggle to also have all the other nice things you want for yourself is just plain wrong.