Power of Attorney financial decisions...

Famau

Thanks all - this does seem to be a bit of a minefield.  Fundamentally, it seems wrong that my mum doesn't spend her full pension each month, and so is accruing savings, whereas my sister scrapes by.  I know mum would be quite happy to controbute a lot more but the legal situaton does worry me.  My sister needs some house repairs soon, and I think I will pay for it via mum's account - argument being that it is in her interests to have a warm and dry house! I wonder if many people have been sampled by OPG, and whether they take a sensible and pragmatic view or a rule-based one, regardless of the logic of the arguments...

tooldle

I have LPA for mum and have never been asked to provide accounts by OPG. I do document everything. I try to remember that i should operate in a way that considers what mum would have done in those circumstances. If mum would never expect to be hosted at the expense of another, then you really should loosen the purse strings and provide enough funds to support day to day living. 
Be careful, your sister could decide that she can no longer afford this situation. If that happens you'll be handing over £3K a month, or more.

Sea_Shell

Just had another related thought...

What's your sister position with her own will and the house.

What happens to mum if something happens to your sister?

elsien

I can see the difficulty with you buying your sister a car with mum’s money. I can a potential issue with mum buying the car in her own name and the sister using it while mum remains housebound and never goes anywhere. But I think you’d have a good argument for mum buying a reasonably priced reliable car if she’s being regularly driven around in it.
Particularly if your sister is willing to record evidence to show that if needed.
You could look at nearly new rather than new if you were concerned about how much you should be spending. 

Unless you were planning a top of the range Ferrari, I am surprised at the response you got from the OPG. 

I’ve only really been involved with them with safeguardings, where they have requested evidence of spending for larger items going back x years. Tbh, I did feel that they were rather less rigorous in their investigation than they should have been,  That’s only a couple of cases though, other investigators may be more thorough. 

Keep_pedalling

Famau said:

Thanks all - this does seem to be a bit of a minefield.  Fundamentally, it seems wrong that my mum doesn't spend her full pension each month, and so is accruing savings, whereas my sister scrapes by.  I know mum would be quite happy to controbute a lot more but the legal situaton does worry me.  My sister needs some house repairs soon, and I think I will pay for it via mum's account - argument being that it is in her interests to have a warm and dry house! I wonder if many people have been sampled by OPG, and whether they take a sensible and pragmatic view or a rule-based one, regardless of the logic of the arguments...

I don’t think anyone is ever sampled by the OPG they only act on receiving a complaint. I really do think you are over thinking this, your sister has made massive sacrifices in doing this, is financially struggling, and needs reliable transport to provide care for your mother, and you mother not only has ample assets to help finance a high level of care but excess income as well.

if your mother needed a wet room installed in your sister’s house would you expect her to pay for it? If your mother needs a career to have reliable transport to take her for days’s out, doctors appointments etc. Then it is entirely reasonable that someone in her financial situation fund that. No one is going to come down on you because you buy your mother a car, with your sister made the registered keeper. 

Famau

Well - thanks again for the comments.  I think you are all raising valid points.  I am over-thinking the situation, and I do note that my sister is effectively saving my mother thousands per month by providing 24/7 care.  And if something happens to my sister then realistically my mum would have to go into care - so another reason for ensuring that my sister doesn't have to deal with the stress of a duff car, a house needing repairs and so on.

As brother and I are in agreement on this - and there is no potential for dispute regarding inheritance - then I think I will persuade my sister to accept help via mum.  Perhaps the only issue that could arise is if she did eventually have to go into care and the coffers ran dry - then there could be a deprivation of assets discussion to be had. 

Anyway, I am not prepared to see my sister suffer as a result of her caring, and I'm not going to go through the court of protection process with all the bureaucracy and costs that entails.  I will simply act as I see fit, in my mum's interests, which means her helping my sister financially, and I will explain and justify if I need to....

Again - thanks for all the comments - helpful and constructive

Mojisola

Famau said:

I will simply act as I see fit, in my mum's interests, which means her helping my sister financially, and I will explain and justify if I need to....

If your mother was in her own home, she would be paying the household bills.

If she was in a care home, she would be paying or contributing to the bill.

Paying half the bills in your sister's home isn't "helping her financially" - it's just paying her fair share.  I hope your sister sees the sense in that.

RAS

I think it's important that you stop thinking of this as "your mum helping your sister." It's your mum re-paying your sister for the costs she incurs helping mum (direct and consequential).

And I'd also suggest that either you or bro, or an outside agency need to provide sister with some weekly relief. Whether this is a granny sitter so she can go out for a coffee and chat with a mate, or one of you taking mum out for an afternoon or day, depending on whether mum gets upset if her routine is changed. It may mean getting someone who can come in and join mum and sister for an hour or two, then gradually introducing periods when sister goes out, which get longer.

Sea_Shell

Famau said:

Well - thanks again for the comments.  I think you are all raising valid points.  I am over-thinking the situation, and I do note that my sister is effectively saving my mother thousands per month by providing 24/7 care.  And if something happens to my sister then realistically my mum would have to go into care - so another reason for ensuring that my sister doesn't have to deal with the stress of a duff car, a house needing repairs and so on.

As brother and I are in agreement on this - and there is no potential for dispute regarding inheritance - then I think I will persuade my sister to accept help via mum.  Perhaps the only issue that could arise is if she did eventually have to go into care and the coffers ran dry - then there could be a deprivation of assets discussion to be had. 

Anyway, I am not prepared to see my sister suffer as a result of her caring, and I'm not going to go through the court of protection process with all the bureaucracy and costs that entails.  I will simply act as I see fit, in my mum's interests, which means her helping my sister financially, and I will explain and justify if I need to....

Again - thanks for all the comments - helpful and constructive

Just on a technical point...(not necessarily aimed at the OP)

Can it even be considered deprivation of assets if your underlying assets remain untouched and you are only spending your income?  Especially if this income is from State Pension plus any Defined Benefit (final salary) pension that's not considered your personal asset "pot"?  It's "new" money.

Would they ever take into account money you would have otherwise accrued IF you hadn't spent (all) your income?


PS I think you're doing the right thing, by the way.

Savvy_Sue

RAS said:

And I'd also suggest that either you or bro, or an outside agency need to provide sister with some weekly relief. Whether this is a granny sitter so she can go out for a coffee and chat with a mate, or one of you taking mum out for an afternoon or day, depending on whether mum gets upset if her routine is changed. It may mean getting someone who can come in and join mum and sister for an hour or two, then gradually introducing periods when sister goes out, which get longer.

I second this. I'd say it was vital for all concerned that your sister gets relief from caring 24/7!