CEL PCN received, cash payment not registered and no ticket issued

PinkFuschias

Hi , I have sent a letter.I also phoned the Harbour office today and spoke to a lady, she said that the ticket machine will accept the money and the registration but it would seem that I did not press a green confirmation button to issue the ticket. She  said that they do not run out of tickets, . I did point out that the signage is contradictory and that there is no helpline number and the office hours at the harbour are 0900am to 100am on a Sunday so there was no assistance available in any respect.

She says in effect that I didn't read the instructions correctly as she has, on several ocasions had to help people who have done the same thing. It's so long ago I can hardly remember.

The lady I spoke to also said that they cannot do anything as CEL run the contract for them, I questioned how they could not do anything when they own the contract. She said to e mail the Harbour Administrator David.

They really aren't prepared to help and seem quite hardened.

She also said to call CEL and gave a number but said they would be unlikely to want to help. I have to admit that this feels hopeless.

PinkFuschias

As a result of your question I have.

they are saying addall the infor I have provided in the popla appeal. - Not uncommon, conflicting signs, no hlpline number, will accept money but still get a fine if miskey.

FrankCannon

I can't see where you say which car park this is. Would it be Wells-Next-The-Sea by any chance ?

Jenni_D

PinkFuschias said:

Hi , I have sent a letter.I also phoned the Harbour office today and spoke to a lady, she said that the ticket machine will accept the money and the registration but it would seem that I did not press a green confirmation button to issue the ticket. She  said that they do not run out of tickets, . I did point out that the signage is contradictory and that there is no helpline number and the office hours at the harbour are 0900am to 100am on a Sunday so there was no assistance available in any respect.

She says in effect that I didn't read the instructions correctly as she has, on several ocasions had to help people who have done the same thing. It's so long ago I can hardly remember.

The lady I spoke to also said that they cannot do anything as CEL run the contract for them, I questioned how they could not do anything when they own the contract. She said to e mail the Harbour Administrator David.

They really aren't prepared to help and seem quite hardened.

She also said to call CEL and gave a number but said they would be unlikely to want to help. I have to admit that this feels hopeless.

Conflicting statements, surely? If you have to help people on several occasions then by default the instructions are not clear and unambiguous. 🙄

Coupon-mad

When you when you email David, ask him how often this crops up as the last mentioned she has heard of this issue many times before.  

Ask if he is aware that it has been catching out more than one paying genuine patron and if they have yet raised this with CEL to improve the system to fulfil their duty of care to motorists. 

And finally ask him to revisit the contract because you’ve been advised that parking contracts almost always allow the principal landowner to cancel some PCNs fir genuine patrons as a gesture of goodwill and that’s what you are seeking, please, as well as an assurance that the will ask CEL to make the signs clearer.  Several people being caught cannot all be in the wrong.

The reason for emailing that is to entice him to reply that yes, it is a problem.  That will be useful evidence.  Are you at POPLA stage - you could argue that this is a ‘keying error’ in failing to input the VRM and press the green button and CEL should have offered to settle at £20 as per the BPA CoP.

PinkFuschias

Sorry my last post is confusing.

I have  spoken to Trading Standards who have said to report to POPLA all that the Harbour Office have said i.e it's not an uncommon occurence so they do know that this happens but have not done anyhting to rectify the situation, in terms of signage / assistance. That the machine will have taken my cash, it's a my miskey. they also said that they do go out and provide help when asked (when the office is open), whilst there is no helpline number for out of office hours / parking operation hours etc

They also say they have no control over their own contractor.

PinkFuschias

Hi , further update (apologies been away for a family event).

I e mailed my MP who is going to contact CEL on my behalf.

I had a response from the Harbour Office Administrator who said that they have as much influence on CEL as they do on a shop tenant, but they will raise my issues at their next meeting.I think this is disengenuous as CEL are advertised as 'managing' the car park, it's not rented by them. Plus the Annual Harbour Commissioner's report states how they are benefitting and reinvesting the profits from the parking, see direct quote below:

'All the commissioners expect is for people to purchase a valid ticket at the machines, we are a business just like any other and we rely on the income from the car park to pay for the upkeep of equipment, moorings and plant that maintains our beautiful harbour.'

I will reply to Mr Cooper.

D_P_Dance

Have you complained to your MP,  the local MP, the Tourist  office, and the local paper?  

PinkFuschias

Morning, I have had another response from the Harbour Administrator

He confrimed the following when they are asked directly for help:

[we advise..] as we do to any person asking us that you need to validate every step by pressing the green button otherwise the machine will just time out.

It is true that we do go and help some people use the machines when  people approach the office determined to tell us the machines are not working and by showing them they are we can ensure the person that they are wrong.

It DOES seem that this is a keying error.

He does not provide any numbers , the final comment is:

Considering how many cars are using the car park, the number of queries/questions we get is a fraction of the number of people who use the car park with no problems whatsoever.

He has also included info on the technicalities of the ticket machine, all things no customer would know, not least because there's no reference to any of this in the advertised T&Cs:

paper tickets are physically checked twice a week when the cash is emptied from the machines, the car park company have real time sensors that tell them when the ticket roll is low and there is also a flashing light on the machines that would also indicate they need to be looked at.

I have raised concerns about a lack of a helpline, and conflicting messages on the signage, he has said he will raise them with CEL but as it's perceived as user fault there's little sympathy.  But as he has said that that CEL Ltd follow BPA signage guidelines, thus unlikely CEL will make any changes.

No response to the questions suggested by Coupon Mad - contract, fee waiver, numbers with an issue etc

I have to reply to POPLA in a couple of days so need to focus on that at the moment.

PinkFuschias

Had an update from my MP's office:

[ My MP ]  has passed this information [the concerns etc] on to Civil Enforcement Ltd for their comments on this matter, with a request that they investigate the fine and suspend any action whilst this is undertaken.

Question , should I continue to log with POPLA, as I run out of time (33 days at the weekend)? It's a 'request' to suspend so I think I probably need to do it, though it also won't look good if they later penalise the appeal.

Any advice please?