Forbidding signs and pre existing rights

Grizebeck

Trainerman said:

Hi @Grizebeck. As regards the four PPC claims, all defences in, one notice of allocation to small claims track. As regards the larger problem, we might be about to get somewhere by arguing negotiation, which is what I needed  that actual transcript for. Thanks again for that.

Good as you need a long term solution

Trainerman

Here we are again with the latest in the saga. Regular readers will know that although a number of PCNs are involved, the ultimate answer lies in our proving pre-existing rights and to this end easements have been applied for.

These things take a lot of time, and now we have our first PCN hearing coming up ( and I will  be shortly putting up a WS for critique). We also have a date when the easement application will be sent to Tribunal.  It is almost certain that all the PCN hearings will be before the Tribunal hearing.

Today's question is this. I know that a Judge at this level is not going to make a judgment on our right to park, and we are defending on other basis as well. However, if we were to lose at small claims and then subsequently be successful at Tribunal, is there a way that small claims or other could be used to get back monies from the PCNs plus (hopefully) damages?

In that scenario, Tribunal would have said that our rights were in place at the material time.

Anyone any ideas on that?  As always, thanks all.

Galloglass

Would it not be better to apply for a stay until the legal position is clarified at the Tribunal. 

Some CC Judges (Sterlini @ Clerkenwell) will send cases over the FTT Property for them to sort out so it's not a novel concept.

Trainerman

Thanks for the reply @Galloglass. Would you know whether that would be an application to the local Court that is due to hold the PCN hearings?

Galloglass

Trainerman said:

Thanks for the reply @Galloglass. Would you know whether that would be an application to the local Court that is due to hold the PCN hearings?

Should be. AFAIK it would be a request for Directions and you'd likely have to pay a fee (either with consent or without consent) to get yourselves in front of a judge.

Trainerman

Thanks again. Looking into it

Coupon-mad

It would cost money though.

You could just attend the hearing & ask for an adjournment, although OPS' rep or employee would probably moan.

Trainerman

Thanks again @Coupon-mad. I am in full on research mode !

Galloglass

Here is the relevant page in CPR and a guide on how to do it..

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/standard-directions/general/making-an-application

Addition: Here is an example from last month of a transfer from CC to the FTT (Property). Note that the judge switched hats at the end from the FTT to the CC to complete the decision by passing down judgment at the same time. So you could get the whole thing wrapped up in one hearing. So best be prepared.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63c00aab8fa8f513bd719e7a/Decision_Flat_3_155_-_163_Balham_Hill.pdf

Trainerman

Here is the first draft of the witness statement for the first case. I am only uploading the core at present, not all of the exhibits although some will be familiar anyway. As you can see, the page refs on the index are not complete either.

Really appreciate any constructive advice, I have to send this first thing Monday. Excuse the clumsy redacting, but time presses

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwkrwoasu9rpa28/wsredact.pdf?dl=0