Variable Speed Limit - 38mph in 20mph on the 70mph M1 Motorway

onlyfoolsandparking

@ezio1

You made a mistake, it happens, now you've just got to deal with it the best way you can but be aware nobody makes mistakes on here especially the 'die hard' posters so no point trying to justify yourself to them or attempt to live up to their expectations.

lemondrops69

ezio1 said:

TadleyBaggie said:

ezio1 said:

So on what grounds would a defence even be made? Based on what you are saying @TadleyBaggie, 100% of individuals lose in court and there is zero defence. 

For a successful defence of speeding offence you would have to prove one of the following:

  The speed detected was incorrect and in fact you were not speeding
  There was a defect with the signage
  The TRO for speed limit was defective
  There was a procedural error when serving the NIP, i.e. served after 14 days

Beyond that there is very little scope for a defence. All the things you mention could be mitigation and reduce the sentence but never a defence.

Maybe my lack of understanding of the terms 'mitigation' and 'defence' may have been the issue here. I most likely do not have a defence, I would naturally plead guilty for it but I would mention the points previously. I will consultant a lawyer in the field aswell.

Thanks for the clarity of your understanding. You will have to plead guilty but may get a fine at the lower end of the scale if you mention the points you made but also if you show real remorse etc etc, and have a huge helping of humble pie

lemondrops69

ezio1 said:

AdrianC said:

ezio1 said:

I did regulate my speed down to 38mph from 70mph

For the 40mph limit...

but it then dropped to 20mph... I clearly didn't reduce it enough though.

You clearly didn't reduce it AT ALL from the 38mph you were doing through the 40 limit...

. You pointed out the obvious... 

Adrian pointing out the obvious? Surely not     

Grumpy_chap

From what has been shared it is very hard to see that the OP has any defence against what is a summary offence.

There may be some mitigations, and showing remorse etc may mitigate some of the impact.  

That said, I do have sympathy for the OP as these variable speed limits can seem to be in place with absurdly tight limits at certain times in the night and for no apparent reason.  I even question the safety of having such a low limit on a motorway with no other traffic management.  I can, like the OP, think it is wrong, but that does not change the rules and raising such points in a court will not aid the OP's position.

TooManyPoints

I think this sums it up:

38mph on a 20mph on a Variable Speed Camera on the M1 - FightBack Forums (pepipoo.com)

born_again

ezio1 said:

Hi all,

I have had a clean license for 15+ years, I was recently driving a van on the M1 motorway and the variable speed limit went from 70 to 40, then 20 (within 2-3 miles). It was night time and the road was clear, 2 cars behind me also got flashed.. Having to reduce the speed from 70 to 20 on a clear motorway at night seems very unreasonable.

I was wondering if I have any grounds to appeal this? If not, what would the punishment be? points, if so, how much? or will i be offered a course since its my first offence?

Thank you all in advance.

Your only chance would be if it had just changed to 20 as you passed under it. But there  is a delay on the camera's. So if it flashed you, then it had been 20 for a while.

You can only take it that dropping the speed limit on a m/way to 20 means there is something up ahead that that poses a large risk to you.

Iceweasel

ezio1 said:

I am no rally driver that intends to do it again, nor have any disregard for the law.

As a rally driver I find that comment offensive.

jimjames

Having been on a motorway in very similar circumstances I can certainly sympathise with your situation. Dropping limits so drastically via changing overhead signs doesn't seem a very good idea for a motorway or even that safe when traffic is at normal speeds before. There could be a genuine defence for missing one of the signs if they are all different. Last time it happened to me there was no obvious reason but I guess there could have been a rolling roadblock ahead that then cleared but 20 does seem excessively low.

user1977

jimjames said:

Having been on a motorway in very similar circumstances I can certainly sympathise with your situation. Dropping limits so drastically via changing overhead signs doesn't seem a very good idea for a motorway or even that safe when traffic is at normal speeds before. There could be a genuine defence for missing one of the signs if they are all different. Last time it happened to me there was no obvious reason but I guess there could have been a rolling roadblock ahead that then cleared but 20 does seem excessively low.

If there was already a 40 limit (and the OP was complying with that), a drop to 20 isn't all that drastic. Its not as if they had to slam on the brakes to get from 70 to 20.

AdrianC

jimjames said:

Having been on a motorway in very similar circumstances I can certainly sympathise with your situation. Dropping limits so drastically via changing overhead signs doesn't seem a very good idea for a motorway or even that safe when traffic is at normal speeds before.

If you have a conceptual issue with variable limits on managed motorways, then by now - 26 years after they were first introduced in the UK - it may be time to accept that you are on the losing side of history...