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Variable Speed Limit - 38mph in 20mph on the 70mph M1 Motorway

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13

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  • TadleyBaggie
    TadleyBaggie Posts: 6,609 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    ezio1 said:
    So on what grounds would a defence even be made? Based on what you are saying @TadleyBaggie, 100% of individuals lose in court and there is zero defence. 
    For a successful defence of speeding offence you would have to prove one of the following:

      The speed detected was incorrect and in fact you were not speeding
      There was a defect with the signage
      The TRO for speed limit was defective
      There was a procedural error when serving the NIP, i.e. served after 14 days

    Beyond that there is very little scope for a defence. All the things you mention could be mitigation and reduce the sentence but never a defence.
  • sheramber
    sheramber Posts: 22,372 Forumite
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     Why do some people claim their driving licence is a necessity when caught speeding but they didn't think it important enough to regulate their speed.

    I lived in a rural are with very limited public transport. Endless such claims were made that they wouldn't be able to get to their work if they were banned.

    It didn't stop them having repeated speeding offences.

    Cycling to work became a necessity for those banned.


  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    edited 17 July 2021 at 4:26PM
    you saw the earlier speed signs, adjusted speed accordingly as you always do but 'missed' the 20 mph one in the blink of eye because it was dark etc etc
    Nope, this simply will not wash.

    The OP was doing 40mph - he was covering 18 metres per second.

    He has to be able to read the 79mm tall, 50mm wide characters on a number plate at 20 metres.
    The variable speed limit signs are HUGE - 1200mm or 1500mm, IIRC.
    They are BRIGHT.
    They are EXPECTED...
  • AdrianC said:
    you saw the earlier speed signs, adjusted speed accordingly as you always do but 'missed' the 20 mph one in the blink of eye because it was dark etc etc
    Nope, this simply will not wash. The OP was doing 40mph - he was covering 18 metres per second. He has to be able to read the 79mm tall, 50mm wide characters on a number plate at 20 metres. The variable speed limit signs are HUGE - 1200mm or 1500mm, IIRC. They are BRIGHT. They are EXPECTED...
    And you are a Magistrate OR you know the Magistrate that will deal with this case?
  • ezio1
    ezio1 Posts: 36 Forumite
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    ezio1 said:
    So on what grounds would a defence even be made? Based on what you are saying @TadleyBaggie, 100% of individuals lose in court and there is zero defence. 
    For a successful defence of speeding offence you would have to prove one of the following:

      The speed detected was incorrect and in fact you were not speeding
      There was a defect with the signage
      The TRO for speed limit was defective
      There was a procedural error when serving the NIP, i.e. served after 14 days

    Beyond that there is very little scope for a defence. All the things you mention could be mitigation and reduce the sentence but never a defence.

    Maybe my lack of understanding of the terms 'mitigation' and 'defence' may have been the issue here. I most likely do not have a defence, I would naturally plead guilty for it but I would mention the points previously. I will consultant a lawyer in the field aswell.
  • Mitigation is definitely not a defence BUT it can have a positive impact on the sentence you will be handed out.  
  • ezio1
    ezio1 Posts: 36 Forumite
    Third Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    sheramber said:
     Why do some people claim their driving licence is a necessity when caught speeding but they didn't think it important enough to regulate their speed.

    I lived in a rural are with very limited public transport. Endless such claims were made that they wouldn't be able to get to their work if they were banned.

    It didn't stop them having repeated speeding offences.

    Cycling to work became a necessity for those banned.



    I did regulate my speed down to 38mph from 70mph but it then dropped to 20mph... I clearly didn't reduce it enough though. I have no repeated offences and lesson learned 100%
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    ezio1 said:

    I did regulate my speed down to 38mph from 70mph
    For the 40mph limit...
    but it then dropped to 20mph... I clearly didn't reduce it enough though.
    You clearly didn't reduce it AT ALL from the 38mph you were doing through the 40 limit...
  • ezio1
    ezio1 Posts: 36 Forumite
    Third Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 17 July 2021 at 4:41PM
    AdrianC said:
    ezio1 said:

    I did regulate my speed down to 38mph from 70mph
    For the 40mph limit...
    but it then dropped to 20mph... I clearly didn't reduce it enough though.
    You clearly didn't reduce it AT ALL from the 38mph you were doing through the 40 limit...
    Yes of course, should have been an extra 18mph after I had already regulated it. You pointed out the obvious... I am no rally driver that intends to do it again, nor have any disregard for the law. It was a clear mistake (2 others behind me also got flashed). You are messaging as if it was doing 38mph in front of a busy 20mph school as opposed to an empty motorway. Now while you will say 'no difference' and there may not be by the letter of the law... there IS a difference in regards to tackling with my own morality.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    ezio1 said:
    AdrianC said:
    ezio1 said:

    I did regulate my speed down to 38mph from 70mph
    For the 40mph limit...
    but it then dropped to 20mph... I clearly didn't reduce it enough though.
    You clearly didn't reduce it AT ALL from the 38mph you were doing through the 40 limit...
    Yes of course, should have been an extra 18mph after I had already regulated it. You pointed out the obvious... I am no rally driver that intends to do it again, nor have any disregard for the law. It was a clear mistake (2 others behind me also got flashed). You are messaging as if it was doing 38mph in front of a busy 20mph school as opposed to an empty motorway. Now while you will say 'no difference' and there may not be by the letter of the law... there IS a difference in regards to tackling with my own morality.
    I make no comment about your personal morality. Simply because that does not come into the judicial process you are facing. Do not try and justify your actions to the court. They have heard it all before, and they do not care.

    Yes, as far as the charge you are facing goes, it IS exactly the same as 38mph in any other 20mph zone... because you are being charged with exceeding the speed limit, not dangerous driving.

    Most primary school age children can tell you that 38 is a much bigger number than 20. And that is the entirety of the prosecution's case, because that is what you are charged with. No more, no less.
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