Problem with composite door lock mechanism.

JohnB47

A couple of times recently, when entering via our front door and wanting to lock it behind me, pulling the handle up and turning the little turnkey thingy (I think that's what it's called) doesn't allow the door to lock. The turnkey stops early with a metal to metal feeling. After a bit of fiddling, it works OK.

This has happened only twice in a week or so. Currently working fine.

I can replicate this by lifting the handle almost but not quite fully up. This made me thing that something was stopping the little lock levers coming fully out of the door. I checked but can't see any obstruction.

I may have to buy a new mechanism.

I've looked at a youtube video, so I know what's involved and I know that I have a winkhous STV-F1660 two hook mechanism.

A couple of questions though. On one site that seems to sell this they say:

"The Winkhaus Cobra is a High quality, 2 hook, split-follower door lock which makes an ideal replacement for damaged Winkhaus Cobra door lock mechanisms. It has a split-spindle function which can be used with a lever/pad handle pair to stop anyone gaining entry from outside without a key. Alternatively, this lock can be used with a lever-lever handle set to operate as standard and has a lift lever function. To activate the split spindle function, insert a flat head screwdriver into the small rectangular hole next to the spindle hole and push. This will roll the pin to the opposite side, activating the reverse function".

I got to this site via a search but it doesn't mention the STV-F1660 code. Maybe I don't have a Cobra mechanism. Anyway, can anyone explain the split follower, split spindle and lever-lever stuff? No idea what those are.

My mechanism has a key slot on the outside and a turnkey on the inside. When you want to lock it, you lift the lever up fully and either turn the key (outside) or the turnkey (inside). All very simple.

Also, any other thoughts what might be causing my particular occasional problem?

Thanks.

NSG666

I had a similar problem recently on both my upvc doors which are key operated both sides. If the key wouldn't turn to lock the door you had to lift the lever further or sometimes push the lever down then yank it up (presumably to get the mechanism into the correct location for locking. With mine I tightened a few screws which had worked loose on the long metal bit that runs the height of the door and I gave everything a good spray with WD40 - sorted.

"After a bit of fiddling it works" - if you only need to fiddle with the thumb-turn then it might be a lock issue rather than full mechanism? Also, if it were the full mechanism at fault you would expect it to do it occasionally when trying to lock it from the outside?

As I understand the split lever, if you have one and use it you can only open the door from outside with a key e.g. if you closed the door behind you but didn't lock it you could not get back in using the lever you would have to use the key. You might have come across something similar on hotel room doors.

Hopefully you'll get a better reply from someone.

Rosa_Damascena

What door manufacturer? And is it still under warranty?

JohnB47

NSG666 said:

I had a similar problem recently on both my upvc doors which are key operated both sides. If the key wouldn't turn to lock the door you had to lift the lever further or sometimes push the lever down then yank it up (presumably to get the mechanism into the correct location for locking. With mine I tightened a few screws which had worked loose on the long metal bit that runs the height of the door and I gave everything a good spray with WD40 - sorted.

"After a bit of fiddling it works" - if you only need to fiddle with the thumb-turn then it might be a lock issue rather than full mechanism? Also, if it were the full mechanism at fault you would expect it to do it occasionally when trying to lock it from the outside?

As I understand the split lever, if you have one and use it you can only open the door from outside with a key e.g. if you closed the door behind you but didn't lock it you could not get back in using the lever you would have to use the key. You might have come across something similar on hotel room doors.

Hopefully you'll get a better reply from someone.

Cheers.

Yes, this problem has only ever occurred when locking from the inside - never a problem locking with the key outside.

No idea about door manufacturer, fitted over 10 years ago so no warranty.

I'll have a look for loose screws and give the mechanism a bit of lubrication.

So, are you suggesting I could replace just the lock module, rather than the whole shebang? I'll do a search for that.

NSG666

So, are you suggesting I could replace just the lock module, rather than the whole shebang? I'll do a search for that.

The lock will be available as a separate item but I don't want to suggest replacing anything at the moment just offering a suggestion with the lubrication and ideas as to how to diagnose / confirm the actual problem. I'm no expert in door locks and someone might come on here and say I've got it all wrong.

The three parts involved in locking the door are the large mechanism you were looking at replacing, the lock and the handle assembly. To me, the fact that it does not occur when locking the door with the key from the outside, rules out the first of these (a proviso here is that when you operate the door lever on one side, the one on the opposite side moves with it).

If it were the lock mechanism then I do know why it does not give problems when using the key. 

That leaves the handle assembly which also contains the thumb turn. Some thumb turns are held in place with a grub screw - check it's tight. Is the square drive on the door handle or the spindle itself worn? Has something broken / got jammed in the handle mechanism?

Given the lock and handles will be easier and cheaper to replace I'd want to be as certain as possible that it's not them before changing the main mechanism.

Jeepers_Creepers

John, if you go through the locking process with the door open, and do it relatively gently/normally - ie not yanking the handle up and stuff - does the key/thumbturn now work ok?

If so, it could be that your door just needs adjusting slightly, almost certainly lifting up at the lock end. When the door drops a teeny bit - as they tend to over time - the locking catch/hook which moves downwards (or straight out) can hit against the bottom of the receiving slot before it's travelled far enough to allow the lock to turn.

JohnB47

That's odd. I posted a reply to you guys, together with two images of one of the hinges and the post has disappeared. It was definitely there - the images were very big within the post.

Did I transgress? Were the images too big and that caused the post to be removed?

Edit: Anyway, in that post I said that I thought I had tried your idea Jeepers, with the door open and I think it worked OK. So it's very possible that you are correct.

I'm not sure how to make the adjustment you mentioned. Perhaps I'll try making the images smaller and try again.

Jeepers_Creepers

I think there may be a picture size limit, but not sure what it is.

Do you have Win10? If you open the pic using 'Photos', you'll find a 'resize' option in the top-right menu (the three dots).

JohnB47

Here are the images of the hinge again. Edit: I resized them as 5"x6". Why is only one showing up and it's huge! 

Jeepers_Creepers

Oh, so not adjustable?

John, how does the lock behave when the door is open?

JohnB47

It currently is working perfectly. When I had the trouble, I seem to remember it working OK with the door open. Then I closed it and it worked again there too. So the problem is fleeting.

Are you saying the door cannot be adjusted? What are those little slotted white things I wonder?