Improve my understanding of live TV vs Catch Up/ On Demand

gsd51

From reading the TV Licencing website it would seem a straight forward definition of 'live, 'catch up' or on demand, but I can't find a clear ruling to my particular question.

If someone watches say Sky News on a platform like YouTube, the stream you are watching ongoing is a live stream and as such requires a licence, but if instead of watching the current time of the stream, a previous point in time is selected e.g. it's currently 6.00 pm, but I select a previous time of say 5.00 pm and then watch the ongoing program 1 hr behind the live time, is that still regarded as watching a live stream or is it now in the catch-up/ on demand category?

Neil_Jones

Technically it could be argued catch-up, since you're winding it back to watch was aired an hour previously.  However it was originally live which you are just winding back a live programme (like C4+1 for example).

Cornucopia

I think it's basically another grey area, which ultimately TV Licensing would take a view on and a Court would either agree or not.

Personally, I wouldn't risk it.   

Alternatives might be:  news clips, live streaming of foreign news channels(*), live streaming of radio and newspaper video services as they appear from time-to-time.  

(*) This is another grey area in the rules, although I think is on slightly firmer ground based on the wording of the legislation.

mobileron

easiest answer if the licence people knock on the door,ignore them and there scam letters.

mjm3346

Neil_Jones said:

Technically it could be argued catch-up, since you're winding it back to watch was aired an hour previously.  However it was originally live which you are just winding back a live programme (like C4+1 for example).

There would possibly be a very short moment when it was "live" before it was rewound - or best for TVL would be to count any "rewind" as your recording of a live stream and not a catch up service so a licence in theory would be required 

Xenon

Cornucopia said:

I think it's basically another grey area, which ultimately TV Licensing would take a view on and a Court would either agree or not.

Personally, I wouldn't risk it.   

Alternatives might be:  news clips, live streaming of foreign news channels(*), live streaming of radio and newspaper video services as they appear from time-to-time.  

(*) This is another grey area in the rules, although I think is on slightly firmer ground based on the wording of the legislation.

How would they even know anyway - unless they were watching through the curtains 

Cornucopia

Xenon said:

How would they even know anyway - unless they were watching through the curtains 

I don't really want to get into the morality of, but I do try to abide by the law, and the limitations required to comply with the TV Licence rules are so trivial to me that I don't see any justification to breach them.

wild666

TV stations sometimes put clip of a show i.e. news on You Tube as little as an hour after it's shown. I would call this catch-up as it's not shown live and some stations put the content on as their catch-up service as little as 30 minutes after it's broadcast at a set time.

Cornucopia

Some content is actually available on catch-up before broadcast.   This is the case on All4, for example, where the broadcast is a repeat showing or where the catch-up forms part of their long-term archive.  

pbartlett

If you are not watching it live (ie as it is being broadcast) then it is not live

For example, if you wind back Sky news to 2 weeks ago it's not live. One day ago - it's not live. One hour ago - it's not live. In fact you could argue if you wind it back 1 millisecond ago it's not live either.

Live means 'as it is being broadcast';

Cornucopia

I think what we're saying is that the old notion of "live" and catch-up meaning two very distinct things is starting to break down somewhat.  

Some years ago, I asked TVL what their working definition of "watching live broadcasts" was.   They said "within 2 hours of the  broadcast".   Which worked at the time, but not so much now, when on All4's schedule for today, there are already 16 programs available for catch-up that will be broadcast between 7pm and 10pm tonight.   

The issue, of course, is that the "live"/"not live" question has been used to simplify the rules for the benefit of the Public, when what we are really talking about is the distinction between content that is broadcast (i.e. you are watching the same content as everyone else who is watching it) and narrowcast (i.e. you are watching your own copy of the content being sent to you by the broadcaster).