Self Charging Hybrid MPG question

Cisco001

My 2018 yaris hybrid doing around 56 mpg

BTW, I find 'real mpg' from honestjohn quite useful. 

BOWFER

peter3hg said:

Generally speaking they don't drive on electric only other than at very low speed or in the initial acceleration phase.

Not helping my hatred of the irrelevant contraptions. 

nick74

Grumpy_chap said:

I had a Toyota Auris Hybrid and got around 42 mpg.
I now have a Ford Focus 1.6 petrol and get around 42 mpg.

I can't help thinking that there must've been something wrong with your Auris to get as poor fuel consumption as that?
We had a conventional 1.6 petrol Auris and used to get 38-40 MPG. The 1.8 hybrid that we replaced it with gets 58-59 MPG on the same journey.

Generally I've found the hybrids I've driven to get MPG on a par with a diesel on a long run, and way better than a diesel on short journeys. 

nick74

UncleZen said:

BOWFER said:

'self-charging' hybrids, waste of time unless all you're doing is avoiding a congestion charge, the real-life MPG figures I've seen are barely any better than the ICE versions.
Plug-in slightly better, although the charging rates can be pathetically slow and it can take hours to charge their low range.
But at least with a plug-in it's feasible many could commute on electric only for days/weeks on end.

Corrolla/Auris 1.8 hybrid 1.8 easily gets 55mpg on urban runing. Fact.

Thats been my experience too. I really wonder how people are driving to get no better fuel consumption in a hybrid than a conventional petrol?

peter3hg

nick74 said:

UncleZen said:

BOWFER said:

'self-charging' hybrids, waste of time unless all you're doing is avoiding a congestion charge, the real-life MPG figures I've seen are barely any better than the ICE versions.
Plug-in slightly better, although the charging rates can be pathetically slow and it can take hours to charge their low range.
But at least with a plug-in it's feasible many could commute on electric only for days/weeks on end.

Corrolla/Auris 1.8 hybrid 1.8 easily gets 55mpg on urban runing. Fact.

Thats been my experience too. I really wonder how people are driving to get no better fuel consumption in a hybrid than a conventional petrol?

If the majority of their driving is on motorways, dual-carriageways or other flowing roads with little braking then they may not do. The benefit of non plug-in hybrids is very dependent on the roads they are used on.

nick74

peter3hg said:

nick74 said:

UncleZen said:

BOWFER said:

'self-charging' hybrids, waste of time unless all you're doing is avoiding a congestion charge, the real-life MPG figures I've seen are barely any better than the ICE versions.
Plug-in slightly better, although the charging rates can be pathetically slow and it can take hours to charge their low range.
But at least with a plug-in it's feasible many could commute on electric only for days/weeks on end.

Corrolla/Auris 1.8 hybrid 1.8 easily gets 55mpg on urban runing. Fact.

Thats been my experience too. I really wonder how people are driving to get no better fuel consumption in a hybrid than a conventional petrol?

If the majority of their driving is on motorways, dual-carriageways or other flowing roads with little braking then they may not do. The benefit of non plug-in hybrids is very dependent on the roads they are used on.

That pretty much sums up my wife's route to work, but yet she consistently gets around 19MPG better fuel consumption in a hybrid compared to a conventional petrol. 

peter3hg

nick74 said:

peter3hg said:

nick74 said:

UncleZen said:

BOWFER said:

'self-charging' hybrids, waste of time unless all you're doing is avoiding a congestion charge, the real-life MPG figures I've seen are barely any better than the ICE versions.
Plug-in slightly better, although the charging rates can be pathetically slow and it can take hours to charge their low range.
But at least with a plug-in it's feasible many could commute on electric only for days/weeks on end.

Corrolla/Auris 1.8 hybrid 1.8 easily gets 55mpg on urban runing. Fact.

Thats been my experience too. I really wonder how people are driving to get no better fuel consumption in a hybrid than a conventional petrol?

If the majority of their driving is on motorways, dual-carriageways or other flowing roads with little braking then they may not do. The benefit of non plug-in hybrids is very dependent on the roads they are used on.

That pretty much sums up my wife's route to work, but yet she consistently gets around 19MPG better fuel consumption in a hybrid compared to a conventional petrol. 

It is nothing to do with it being a hybrid then.
They can't break the laws of physics, they can only achieve greater efficiency by using energy a conventional car wastes which is during braking.
If your wife's journey involves very little braking then the hybrid system has no recovered energy to work with.

nick74

peter3hg said:

nick74 said:

peter3hg said:

nick74 said:

UncleZen said:

BOWFER said:

'self-charging' hybrids, waste of time unless all you're doing is avoiding a congestion charge, the real-life MPG figures I've seen are barely any better than the ICE versions.
Plug-in slightly better, although the charging rates can be pathetically slow and it can take hours to charge their low range.
But at least with a plug-in it's feasible many could commute on electric only for days/weeks on end.

Corrolla/Auris 1.8 hybrid 1.8 easily gets 55mpg on urban runing. Fact.

Thats been my experience too. I really wonder how people are driving to get no better fuel consumption in a hybrid than a conventional petrol?

If the majority of their driving is on motorways, dual-carriageways or other flowing roads with little braking then they may not do. The benefit of non plug-in hybrids is very dependent on the roads they are used on.

That pretty much sums up my wife's route to work, but yet she consistently gets around 19MPG better fuel consumption in a hybrid compared to a conventional petrol. 

It is nothing to do with it being a hybrid then.
They can't break the laws of physics, they can only achieve greater efficiency by using energy a conventional car wastes which is during braking.
If your wife's journey involves very little braking then the hybrid system has no recovered energy to work with.

You're ignoring the fact that the hybrid uses an Atkinson cycle engine rather than an Otto cycle. Even at a constant speed with no regenerative braking the Atkinson cycle engine will be more fuel-efficient, The reason Atkinson cycle engines tend not to be used on their own is due to lack of low-down torque, but the electric motor of the hybrid compensates for the torque it lacks, which is why they work well together.

born_again

peter3hg said:

If your wife's journey involves very little braking then the hybrid system has no recovered energy to work with.

Mine will switch to EV power even at 70 MPH if conditions are right. 
Battery can also be charged by engine at any point. You can have a nice power flow chart up which shows which engine is working & what it is doing. Driving wheels & or charging the battery.
So I can see at times ICE is not only powering the wheels, but also sending some charge to the battery. Or if regen braking is charging up the battery. Down a nice local hill, it will take the batter from just under 1/2 to  full on regen alone

So the only work at low speed & around town is a load of rubbish. 

peter3hg

nick74 said:

peter3hg said:

nick74 said:

peter3hg said:

nick74 said:

UncleZen said:

BOWFER said:

'self-charging' hybrids, waste of time unless all you're doing is avoiding a congestion charge, the real-life MPG figures I've seen are barely any better than the ICE versions.
Plug-in slightly better, although the charging rates can be pathetically slow and it can take hours to charge their low range.
But at least with a plug-in it's feasible many could commute on electric only for days/weeks on end.

Corrolla/Auris 1.8 hybrid 1.8 easily gets 55mpg on urban runing. Fact.

Thats been my experience too. I really wonder how people are driving to get no better fuel consumption in a hybrid than a conventional petrol?

If the majority of their driving is on motorways, dual-carriageways or other flowing roads with little braking then they may not do. The benefit of non plug-in hybrids is very dependent on the roads they are used on.

That pretty much sums up my wife's route to work, but yet she consistently gets around 19MPG better fuel consumption in a hybrid compared to a conventional petrol. 

It is nothing to do with it being a hybrid then.
They can't break the laws of physics, they can only achieve greater efficiency by using energy a conventional car wastes which is during braking.
If your wife's journey involves very little braking then the hybrid system has no recovered energy to work with.

You're ignoring the fact that the hybrid uses an Atkinson cycle engine rather than an Otto cycle. Even at a constant speed with no regenerative braking the Atkinson cycle engine will be more fuel-efficient, The reason Atkinson cycle engines tend not to be used on their own is due to lack of low-down torque, but the electric motor of the hybrid compensates for the torque it lacks, which is why they work well together.

It is a good point, but Atkinson cycle engines aren't solely the preserve of hybrids these days.
Toyota uses Atkinson cycle engines in some of their non-hybrid small cars and Mazda has their clever Skyactiv engines which can run as either Otto cycle or something akin to Miller/Atkinson cycle.
Nissan also has a variable compression engine which gives it the efficiency of an Atkinson engine but the power density of an Otto cycle engine low down.