Self Charging Hybrid MPG question

Grumpy_chap

lmv80 said:

I’m thinking of changing my my petrol car (Seat Leon estate FR 2.0, Petrol) to a self charging hybrid, possibly a Toyota with a smaller engine size. I cannot get a plug in, as I have no drive and park on the road. 

I mostly use my car for general stuff and commuting to work, about half is on a dual carriageway. 

I’m wondering if this is the right move, or just as economical to get a petrol hatchback. I’m spending about £130-£150 on fuel alone, per month. According to my dash, my car is averaging 42MPG. 

The biggest thing that I’m wondering is about the MPG on a self charging hybrid and I hope someone can help, I may be getting the wrong end of the stick or might just be stupid. Hah! 

I had a Toyota Auris Hybrid and got around 42 mpg.
I now have a Ford Focus 1.6 petrol and get around 42 mpg.

Deleted_User said:

Depreciation isn't a cost or a loss, you don't get a bill for it at the end. Nobody buys a normal car with the expectation of it being worth anything like what it was when you bought it. I am still awaiting the demand for payment for the depreciation of my car, bought new 6 years ago, maybe you can tell me when the money will be taken? Lot of dealers are doing 0% PCP also

Of course depreciation is a cost. It is the biggest cost of running a car.  You get the bill for it at the outset and you get a small discount back on it at the end - if you bought your car.  If you do PCP, then you are only paying the depreciation (plus a bit of finance) every month.

Stubod

..I have been here before, but I think in most circumstances "self charging" hybrids are a bit of a waste of time..(IMHO), I have a couple of friends who have them and they rarely do any better mpg than a normal (small engine) IC engine, but with a higher purchase price and more "kit" to go wrong. Either full electric, or full ic for me...(IMHO)...

lmv80

Some very helpful comments here. Thank you all. Looks like I need to have another think about this. Maybe the technology just isn’t there yet…

AdrianC

lmv80 said:

Some very helpful comments here. Thank you all. Looks like I need to have another think about this. Maybe the technology just isn’t there yet…

The technology is there. It just isn't fitted to non-plugins...

Yes, they could put a bigger, heavier battery in them. But it still needs to be charged.
And, without plugging in, that charge is only coming from one place... petrol.
Either directly, in that the engine is charging the battery directly, or indirectly in that regeneration is using the kinetic energy generated by the petrol.

Car_54

UncleZen said:

BOWFER said:

'self-charging' hybrids, waste of time unless all you're doing is avoiding a congestion charge, the real-life MPG figures I've seen are barely any better than the ICE versions.
Plug-in slightly better, although the charging rates can be pathetically slow and it can take hours to charge their low range.
But at least with a plug-in it's feasible many could commute on electric only for days/weeks on end.

Corrolla/Auris 1.8 hybrid 1.8 easily gets 55mpg on urban runing. Fact.

I'm so glad you added "Fact" at the end. 

That makes all the difference, and everyone will believe what came before unquestioningly. Fact.

BOWFER

lmv80 said:

 The trouble is, where I live there is a lack of charging points near my house and where I work, I did a search. There are six in a 10 mile radius. Two at a garage, two at a supermarket and two in a restaurant car park.  I’d love a plug in - but the potential of a charging point being used when I arrive or it being out of order gives me enormous anxiety. Haha! 

No potential to plug it into the mains at work?
Just saying, you're literally surrounded with charging point in an EV.

peter3hg

AdrianC said:

lmv80 said:

Some very helpful comments here. Thank you all. Looks like I need to have another think about this. Maybe the technology just isn’t there yet…

The technology is there. It just isn't fitted to non-plugins...

Yes, they could put a bigger, heavier battery in them. But it still needs to be charged.
And, without plugging in, that charge is only coming from one place... petrol.
Either directly, in that the engine is charging the battery directly, or indirectly in that regeneration is using the kinetic energy generated by the petrol.

I'm not sure any modern non-plugin hybrids charge the batteries directly from the engine. The primary mode of charging is through regeneration. It is energy that would otherwise be mainly wasted through heat from the brakes.

Whether that regenerated energy is a net benefit compared to the extra weight of the car depends on driving profile. If somebody primarily does urban stop/start type driving then the hybrid will give significant efficiency benefits, hence why so many minicab drivers use them.
On a flowing road, motorway or dual-carriage way they provide no benefit at all.

Basically if you do a significant amount of driving in busy towns and cities then a non-charging hybrid may be worth a look if a plug-in isn't an option. Otherwise don't bother.

BOWFER

Out of sheer interest, how long does it take for a hybrid battery to charge?
Hypothetically, let's say you arrive home on electric only but the battery is empty at that point.
How much petrol driving would one have to do before any meaningful range is restored to the batteries?

peter3hg

BOWFER said:

Out of sheer interest, how long does it take for a hybrid battery to charge?
Hypothetically, let's say you arrive home on electric only but the battery is empty at that point.
How much petrol driving would one have to do before any meaningful range is restored to the batteries?

Generally speaking they don't drive on electric only other than at very low speed or in the initial acceleration phase.
One braking episode will provide energy that can be used to assist in acceleration. It doesn't have to build up a significant charge before use.

I have seen studies that Tesla's can convert about 65% of the braking force in to usable energy.
From a stop from 60mph this would roughly generate 0.115 kw/h of usable energy for a Model 3.
The Model 3 can do 4.4 miles per kw/h in combined usage so one stop from 60mph would generate enough usable energy to cover an average of 0.5 miles.

A hybrid won't recover energy as well as a Tesla, but you can still see that regenerative braking recovers a useful amount of energy as long as your driving profile suits it.

BOWFER

4.4 miles per Kwh is impressive, I usually tell 'newbies' to figure on 3 miles.
A friend recently test drove a Skoda and E-mach and the readouts both showed 3 miles per Kwh, as I predicted.