Neighbour Fence Height construction issue

Cookiepops

my neighbour installed 6ft high fence panels with concrete posts inside the boundary.  We still retain the original boundary and 3ft high wire fencing (can't be seen as hidden by shrubs).  However, closer to the house, they stopped the separate fence with its own posts and fixed the last panel with a piece of wood to our fence (our wire fence ends and we have a wooden 6ft fence with wooden posts).  They then have a raised patio in front of their house (over 1/2 ft) and they then proceeded to fix 6ft fence panels directly to our fence - which is now top heavy due to their raised patio.  We expressed our concerns and tried to explain the ground height isn't the same but they didn't want to listen.
They have now submitted planning application to raise their fence to 8ft.  I have no issue with this for the fence panels further down in the garden as it has its own supports but I can't allow them to fix 8ft panels to our fence on top of their raised patio as its going to put too much pressure on our fence.  One of their panels (the last one that has a concrete post but is then fixed to our fence with a piece of wood) came loose in the high winds earlier this year and was flapping around where it was still attached to our fence at one end.  We had to grab it and pull it back and secure it because it was starting to pull our fence over.
I have called the planning department who are going to do a site inspection but she said they can only approve the request which is to raise the height but I expressed concerns that there is nothing in the application about how they are going to do it and that it currently is attached to our structure and could cause damage to our property.  Also, which the neighbours have said 8ft in height, due to their raised patio, it will be at least 8 1/2 ft in height on our side.  
As you can probably tell from this post, we've had issues with our neighbours in the past and we are not in a position to discuss this directly with them.  I'm really concerned that if planning application is granted without any caveats on the construction, they will use this as an excuse to rip out our fence altogether (which also has a water pipe and electrical cable attached to it)
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks

theonlywayisup

Planning will not tell them to put their own fence post in.  The only way you are going to be able to deal with this is by talking to your neighbours.  

grumbler

Yes, council cannot help and won't help.

Either spend years and loads of money (that you'll never recover even if you win) on legal actions or make reinforcements on your side.

IMO the choice is simple.

TELLIT01

If your fence is entirely on your property you could simply disconnect their fence from yours and see how they react.  Worst case it could escalate to court action.

Jeepers_Creepers

Cookiepops said:

my neighbour installed 6ft high fence panels with concrete posts inside the boundary.  We still retain the original boundary and 3ft high wire fencing (can't be seen as hidden by shrubs).  However, closer to the house, they stopped the separate fence with its own posts and fixed the last panel with a piece of wood to our fence (our wire fence ends and we have a wooden 6ft fence with wooden posts).  They then have a raised patio in front of their house (over 1/2 ft) and they then proceeded to fix 6ft fence panels directly to our fence - which is now top heavy due to their raised patio.  We expressed our concerns and tried to explain the ground height isn't the same but they didn't want to listen.
They have now submitted planning application to raise their fence to 8ft.  I have no issue with this for the fence panels further down in the garden as it has its own supports but I can't allow them to fix 8ft panels to our fence on top of their raised patio as its going to put too much pressure on our fence.  One of their panels (the last one that has a concrete post but is then fixed to our fence with a piece of wood) came loose in the high winds earlier this year and was flapping around where it was still attached to our fence at one end.  We had to grab it and pull it back and secure it because it was starting to pull our fence over.
I have called the planning department who are going to do a site inspection but she said they can only approve the request which is to raise the height but I expressed concerns that there is nothing in the application about how they are going to do it and that it currently is attached to our structure and could cause damage to our property.  Also, which the neighbours have said 8ft in height, due to their raised patio, it will be at least 8 1/2 ft in height on our side.  
As you can probably tell from this post, we've had issues with our neighbours in the past and we are not in a position to discuss this directly with them.  I'm really concerned that if planning application is granted without any caveats on the construction, they will use this as an excuse to rip out our fence altogether (which also has a water pipe and electrical cable attached to it)
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks

Hi Cookie.

Can't say I'm fully following the details here, so please correct the following:

1) You don't get on with this neighb, and find it hard to communicate with them? And they with you? Try and put that aside for a moment, and look solely at the facts of this issue. Which presumably are:

2) For much of the garden boundary, your neigh has put up a new, concrete-post fence which is 6' tall, and this is within their boundary? So nothing amiss there.

3) Your neighbs have built a 'raised' patio near their house which is around a 1/2' high, so this is well within the 300mm height at which they'd need to apply for PP? So nothing amiss there.

4) They have attached 6' high fence panels to 'your' fence, a fence that you admit ain't all that strong? Ok, that's the first dodgy thing they've done - if it's your fence. Is it? And possibly they have gone a tad too high in any case as - I think - the height is measured from the lowest ground level, but please don't quote me on that. But, in any case, they are seeking PP for an even higher fence, so are following the correct procedure? Nothing amiss in that last bit.

And that's the gist of it?

Hmm. This neigh has built an easily-conforming patio, and is now - rightly - seeking PP for a higher fence since their land is higher than yours in any case, and presumably they'd be able to see over a standard 6' fence if they didn't do this. And they clearly don't want to see into your garden.

I have to say, Cookie, that I'm struggling to see what your issue is.

When PP comes out, and very possibly approves their request for an 8' fence (tho' they might tell them to compromise at, say, 7', for example), then almost certainly your neighb is going to have to rebuild the whole fence to make it strong enough. (There is no onus on you to rebuild this fence, or even have a fence at all, but if it blows down on to their land and causes damage, then you would be liable as you clearly know the fence ain't all that strong.  On the other hand, if the fence falls down after they have attached extra panels to it without permission, you could argue that it's their panels wot dun it. Seriously, tho', you don't want to get into a legal argument over such things).

So, you are going to end up with a very strong, brand-new fence at no cost to you? And privacy?

I'm now struggling even more to see your concern.

What are the alternatives? You stick to your guns and make an issue of this until they might decide it ain't worth pursuing, in which case you will be stuck with a shoogly 6' fence with your neighb's heads bobbing above it. Or they could plant some laurels along that border which will grow to 12'+ and there's nothing you can do about it.

IF I have summed up the situation correctly, can I please suggest - for your health, dignity, and future happiness in your home - you tell the PP fellow (or your neighb), "Look, all I am concerned about is the physical structure of my fence. So if they get their PP for an 8' fence - and I do appreciate that they are going about this the right way and have no objection in principle - will they be prepared to rebuild it as strongly as they have the other sections?"

"Yes."

"Cool - and can you thank them. And for also going about this the right way..."

I promise you, such magnanimity will make you feel a LOT better about the whole thing, will ease tensions, and should prevent them from going an alternative route - which would almost certainly be much worse for you.

ashe

If they’ve put a fence up why not just take yours down and then they will have to support their own fence?

Rosa_Damascena

ashe said:

If they’ve put a fence up why not just take yours down and then they will have to support their own fence?

Lateral thinking, I like it

twopenny

Yes, making your problem their problem is the way to get something done with no arguments. (Been there, done that)

However ensure if you take your fence down the boundary is marked. This could be done quickly by a row of Box hedging. £3 each from Morrisons.

They are only 1ft high so no chance of attaching a fence to them.

Slow growing but survives most things. Only needed until their fence is in and on the right side.

Cookiepops

ashe said:

If they’ve put a fence up why not just take yours down and then they will have to support their own fence?

their fence for most of the garden is supported itself, but as it gets closer to the house, they stopped using their own posts and then just screwed their fence panels directly onto our fence.  If I took ours down, I would be damaging their property in the process.  That aside, its not easily possible to take down our part of the fence because there is a water pipe and electrical cable which runs along it.

Cookiepops

twopenny said:

Yes, making your problem their problem is the way to get something done with no arguments. (Been there, done that)

However ensure if you take your fence down the boundary is marked. This could be done quickly by a row of Box hedging. £3 each from Morrisons.

They are only 1ft high so no chance of attaching a fence to them.

Slow growing but survives most things. Only needed until their fence is in and on the right side.

there is planting along the fenceline.  Its their problem they are making mine, they want a high fence but dont want to support it and have already attached higher fence panels to our fence and now want to make them even higher.  This is making the fence top heavy (they have a raised patio so their panels aren't at our ground level - effectively attached further up our fence) - no amount of planting is going to stop the fence from coming down because its too top heavy.

Jeepers_Creepers

Cookie, what is your actual issue with this new fence?

Is it that it could damage your existing fence? If so, that shouldn't be an issue, as they are simply not allowed to attach anything to it if it's yours.

Or is it that - at 8' - it'll feel too tall and looming? If so, consider the alternatives - with a 6' fence, you'll likely see their heads as they walk on their patio, and they'll also see into your garden = little privacy. If they find this is a problem - if they decide they don't like you seeing their heads from the ears up, then there is nothing to stop them planting screening shrubs, and they can let this grow pretty much as tall as they want. How would you feel about a 12' high hedge? You should seriously consider how you'd feel about this.

This sounds like a good time to agree a win-win. They get their 8' fence, and you get your both privacy and a brand new fence too - 'cos your old one wasn't all that strong.