Help with an ebay dispute

fenwick458

here's the background, had an item listed for £15, approx. 50 year old electrical switch
accepted a best offer of £9 on 31st May
sent payment reminder the next day
the day after that they replied and said they need to check with their electrician to see if it's suitable and would pay once they have confirmed that
and the day after that they paid and it was dispatched

just the other day they opened a return under the section "not as described" but in their messages in eBay back and forth never actually said it's not as described they just said their electrician refused to fit it as it's not up to the current regulations. which is kit of obvious, it's about 50 years old.
I explained that I'm a private seller and I don't accept change of mind returns, I wasn't going to pay for a return label and refund them the original postage as I had done nothing wrong, the item was exactly as described. if there was an option to just get them to post it back to me themselves and I'd issue them a refund for the purchase price minus postage, I'd just do that reluctantly but there isn't, so I just closed the return.

now they have opened a dispute case. reason, the item doesn't match the description in the listing
I have 2 options, challenge dispute and provide evidence, or accept the dispute and byer receives refund
so when I click on the challenge option, all I can do is upload a jpeg "Please upload a file that shows this item was as you described it in your listing"
and confirm my address for if they send it back, saying that "may be possible" to get it returned.

so what am I supposed to send them, I don't have the item, all I have is the picture I used when I listed the switch months ago

I had a similar case like this last year where a buyer bought a fan from me that was listed as a fan only, and for some reason he expected it to come complete with the transformer, even though it said "no transformer included this is the fan only" and it was half the price of other listings for the same spec fan and transformer. eBay stepped in on that and told the buyer to return it to me at their expense as it was kind of clear that it was their mistake and at that point they just closed the case which was a good result.  this is the same problem I'm having now but with the new dispute system I don't know how sending a picture they already have will do any good. from the messages in the return case it seems pretty obvious to anyone that they have just made a mistake buying something and are expecting me to pay for it

theonlywayisup

Unfortunately this is the perilous side of Ebay where a buyer can misuse the Ebay Money Back guarantee to their advantage.  It would have been easier for you to have accepted the return originally but that doesn't help you now.

Personally, I would accept the return, issue the cheapest label and refund on return. 

pbartlett

I would fight it tooth and nail just for the principle of the thing - if sellers don't take a stand then buyers will think they have free rein to return anything

fenwick458

pbartlett said:

I would fight it tooth and nail just for the principle of the thing - if sellers don't take a stand then buyers will think they have free rein to return anything

that is my point, thanks. it's just the principle.
the seller so far has just been going on about selling regulations and how it's not legal to sell old electrical items that don't conform to todays standards. all of which is complete nonsense as far as I know
I'm a private seller, I can sell what I want as long as it doesn't break eBay's rules. the item was correctly described, they knew what they were getting.
so I ended up calling eBay CS and they just said take a screenshot of my original listing and upload that. the buyer has to do the same, and then someone decides if it was correctly described or not

theonlywayisup

Just be wary of what happens if you lose.   Sometimes it's not worth taking a hit. 

fenwick458

turns out I didn't win the case, buyer submitted pictures of a switch that was very similar to the untrained eye but slightly different. they actually paid (from their own pocket) to return this "other switch" to me, and I got it in the post just before ebay decided the outcome.
the box it arrived in had sender postcode on which I searched and found another seller of old electrical switches, and using the "completed items listing search" on ebay I found the actual sale, same date as my original sale...?
what's the chances the buyer bought 2 switches on the same day that looked very similar, hoping one of them would fit,  but when neither were good to fit decided to return them to the different sellers as "not described"?
cost me £14 in eBay fees, something I was unaware I was even risking tbh
but still, you have to stand up to these people, I've had loads try it on and seem to have won more that I have lost
I really did think I would have a chance fighting the case as the buyer had been so descriptive of what was wrong with it via ebay messages and the return case(all nonsense), but absolutely none of that was related to it not being as described. yet then in the dispute case I get the feeling that the adjudicator just saw 2 pictures (one from me of the actual item, and the buyers photo of the other switch they bought) and some very limited info abut the case...

Spoonie_Turtle

Ouch.  I wonder if it's worth giving eBay this new information.  Might also possibly help the other seller out if they've had a case opened too, if the CS person dealing with it joins up the dots.

(Yes I know that's a big IF!  But still.)

bris

theonlywayisup said:

Just be wary of what happens if you lose.   Sometimes it's not worth taking a hit. 

No one is coming to beat them over the head with the switch and if they lose they will be in the exact same position as if the allowed the SNAD in the first place.

As for feedback, well that horse has already bolted, nothing is stopping this buyer leaving a neg now, that damage is already done.

Fighting it may well be a good thing as win or lose the buyer is now on Ebay's radar, they don't get away with this nonsense forever.  

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

fenwick458 said:

cost me £14 in eBay fees, something I was unaware I was even risking tbh

£14 in fees sounds like a card chargeback? 

theonlywayisup

bris said:

theonlywayisup said:

Just be wary of what happens if you lose.   Sometimes it's not worth taking a hit. 

No one is coming to beat them over the head with the switch 

I was referring to the hit on the seller dashboard, that can be catastrophic for a seller if the dashboard has been hit before.

bris said:

theonlywayisup said:

Just be wary of what happens if you lose.   Sometimes it's not worth taking a hit. 

....and if they lose they will be in the exact same position as if the allowed the SNAD in the first place.

 If you lose a SNAD as a seller (after fighting it) then no you are not left in the same position as having accepted it. 

bris said:

theonlywayisup said:

Just be wary of what happens if you lose.   Sometimes it's not worth taking a hit. 

As for feedback, well that horse has already bolted, nothing is stopping this buyer leaving a neg now, that damage is already done.

I made no comment on feedback. 

bris said:

theonlywayisup said:

Just be wary of what happens if you lose.   Sometimes it's not worth taking a hit. 

Fighting it may well be a good thing as win or lose the buyer is now on Ebay's radar, they don't get away with this nonsense forever.  

It doesn't work like that and as I've said.  Fighting it if you are a seller can seriously harm your selling rights if you have other defects on your dashboard.