Near completion of RTB maisonette/ downstairs Neighbour dispute/complaint over boundaries.

carefullycautious

Does he need side access to allow for taking his bins out? I would not want to take them through property. I have lived in a ground floor flat in past, I was responsible for front garden and half of back. My upstairs neighbour had access around the back to get to their garden.

The council are the freeholder in your case and have every right to look into this complaint and speak in confidence with your neighbour. With respect you do come across as demanding and have not really handled this very well. This elderly gentleman has been used to  what he thought was right and is only trying to find out if this can remain.

You have to remember you only lease the property it is not freehold

Julz94

carefullycautious said:

Does he need side access to allow for taking his bins out? I would not want to take them through property. I have lived in a ground floor flat in past, I was responsible for front garden and half of back. My upstairs neighbour had access around the back to get to their garden.

The council are the freeholder in your case and have every right to look into this complaint and speak in confidence with your neighbour. With respect you do come across as demanding and have not really handled this very well. This elderly gentleman has been used to  what he thought was right and is only trying to find out if this can remain.

You have to remember you only lease the property it is not freehold

I do appreciate what your saying and I have stoped and wondered  whether I could of handled the situation any better. Although I might come across as demanding through the post it’s not the case, I’m just following what I have on paper and I have NOT gone by “hearsay” of what a housing officer “said” 13 years ago. 

In my opinion I think I have been fair every step of the way, if I was not-  I would of never notified him I’m buying the property, never notified him I plan to fix up garden , never notify him once I receive lease plans I will erecting fencing as per plans.  It’s in my right  Once sale goes through. erected fencing, change side gate keys and let the council deal with his winging afterwards.

sure, it’s his right for him finding out whether it can remain of what ‘he thought’ how the setup was- but it’s greed and I would of appreciated him letting me know of his plans like I let him know of my plans all the way...

  I was told prior it’s my councils policy to award front garden to downstairs neighbour due to privacy , hence why due to privacy side entrance should be upstairs.  

If you read the original post. When he moved in, the previous tenant to me lived somewhere else and the property was generally empty. He didn’t care about the property or the garden. And the downstairs was left to treat the whole garden as his- this was clarified by next door neighbour. So it’s not a case of him being misinformed and misled and treated unfairly. It’s him throwing his toys out his Pram. 

Yes you are absolutely correct I would not want to be taking bins out through the house either , however He does NOT need side gate access for taking bins out. His bins are by his front door( front garden )  like everyone else in our borough . I personally have never come across people keeping bins in the garden. 

Lastly, his not elderly, about early 40’s and moves better than me in my late 20’s. 

With respect I am not the young tenant trying to bully the 70 year old tenant if that’s what your thinking 

carefullycautious

Apologies for assuming this was an elderly gentleman. I hope that you get this resolved to both your satisfaction. 

sheramber

What if he wants to take a large item to his back garden? does he use the side access but would have to take it through the house if gate was locked.?

for instance, does he need to take his lawnmower to the front garden?


I live in terraced house and have right of access through my next door neighbour's garden to my back garden. I don't need to use it as there is another access but the right is there on the deeds.

HampshireH

sheramber said:

What if he wants to take a large item to his back garden? does he use the side access but would have to take it through the house if gate was locked.?

for instance, does he need to take his lawnmower to the front garden?


I live in terraced house and have right of access through my next door neighbour's garden to my back garden. I don't need to use it as there is another access but the right is there on the deeds.

He doesn't have the back garden

I think that's OPs point.  The back bit belongs to the flat OP lives in and downstairs has no need to access the path to the back section as they can access their own without doing so.

The front belongs to the neighbours flat.

So if the neighbour decides to take some big furniture to the back garden they would be flytipping

Edited as realised it initially read like downstairs has no garden

Julz94

HampshireH said:

sheramber said:

What if he wants to take a large item to his back garden? does he use the side access but would have to take it through the house if gate was locked.?

for instance, does he need to take his lawnmower to the front garden?


I live in terraced house and have right of access through my next door neighbour's garden to my back garden. I don't need to use it as there is another access but the right is there on the deeds.

He doesn't have the back garden

I think that's OPs point.  The back bit belongs to the flat OP lives in and downstairs has no need to access the path to the back section as they can access their own without doing so.

The front belongs to the neighbours flat.

So if the neighbour decides to take some big furniture to the back garden they would be flytipping

Edited as realised it initially read like downstairs has no garden

How do all other houses that don’t have a side gate take furniture to the garden ? I.e terraced  houses.. if he needs to take a lawnmower to his front he takes it out the same way as someone living in a terraced house does... his front is full of concrete slabs so he wouldn’t need to anyways. 

if we go through the what if’s - it would be never ending.  

How do I take furniture all the way up through a tight stairwell to my flat? 

He has two doors. One front door to
gain access to his property and a back door to gain entrance to his garden.  Forget it being maisonette/end of terrace..... Think of it as a terraced house. 

The only entrance to me to access my garden is the side gate.  It’s not possible to make it shared as you would have to put a two side gates However it’s not large enough to fit two gates.  

These houses were converted in the 60’s I believe,  as maisonettes by the council. I’m pretty sure they have some sort  of paperwork when they were built with a plan of what’s what and who has what. I might be wrong, but would make sense it that it does.  I don’t believe they made a mistake on the lease plans. 

They have not produced the lease plans in this way cause they like me . 

Julz94

Green arrow is front of estate 🏡.
downstairs has front and rear door at back where orange marking is. 

I have main door to flat where blue marking is . *Not exactly there *but main door is on side of end of terrace.  

sheramber

He has two doors. One front door to
gain access to his property and a back door to gain entrance to his garden

So downstairs does have a back garden.

the plan shown also seems to indicate the downstairs owner has half the back garden nearest his house.

I live in a terrace house as I said. I have right of access along the back of the house next door, which is end terrace.

The path passes adjacent to his dining room window and back door, up the side of the house onto the road., I do not own that garden but have a right of access over it.

I also have right of access to a path which goes from the bottom of my garden  along the bottom of the gardens of the   next two house on the other side, and up the side of the last one onto the road.

So I have a choice of how I access my back garden. with bulky items.  

 Your neighbour should at least have access along the path at the side of the houses to his back garden.

This could also be required by emergency services, utility services etc. 

You can out a fence up along the boundary of your half and put a gate up at  the end of it to section off your garden.

user1977

sheramber said:

 Your neighbour should at least have access along the path at the side of the houses to his back garden.

This could also be required by emergency services, utility services etc. 

It might be useful or commonplace, but it's hardly ubiquitous or compulsory for there to be external access to back gardens - I live upstairs from an example of that. 

Julz94

sheramber said:

He has two doors. One front door to
gain access to his property and a back door to gain entrance to his garden

So downstairs does have a back garden.

the plan shown also seems to indicate the downstairs owner has half the back garden nearest his house.

I live in a terrace house as I said. I have right of access along the back of the house next door, which is end terrace.

The path passes adjacent to his dining room window and back door, up the side of the house onto the road., I do not own that garden but have a right of access over it.

I also have right of access to a path which goes from the bottom of my garden  along the bottom of the gardens of the   next two house on the other side, and up the side of the last one onto the road.

So I have a choice of how I access my back garden. with bulky items.  

 Your neighbour should at least have access along the path at the side of the houses to his back garden.

This could also be required by emergency services, utility services etc. 

You can out a fence up along the boundary of your half and put a gate up at  the end of it to section off your garden.

I understand where your coming from and respect your opinion but I do not agree. 

I can’t comment on on how your setup is of where you live but where I live all maisonettes similar to mine are identical to the lease plan I have been shown. I have looking through rightmove of previously sold and what’s up for sale at the moment in my borough. All identical. 

If you take away the side gate walkway all the way to the back of the garden , I get left with very minimum amount of garden.  He already has the front and half of back- I do not think it would be fair to also award him the side gate walkway- but if the council decide to change the plans so be it. I would just have to accept it and get on with it . 

Besides that He is even disputing where the boundary is between our gardens. He keeps saying I was told it is more over my side. So essentially according to what he was told  , he would have 60% of garden and I would be left with 40%.. 

i see absolutely no reason why he would
merit the side gate walkway being communal. 

He is a very difficult character, let me give you an example-  the building  itself and front and back garden looks very ;how can I put it. You can tell it’s council. 

The front garden is massive it can fit three cars, I struggle with parking on the street and sometimes have to park in the next street . I offered to pay everything to do his front garden ( it’s perimeter is covered by bushes and internally concrete slabs )  and a dropped kerb for literally perhaps 30% usage of the front garden to park my car.  He has literally seen us struggle for parking and having to carry shopping 30 yards to the property at times. 

He outright refused-
asked again- this time  offering to pay some sort of rent monthly to do above and  park ?
  Again refused Which no problem it’s his right.  

I asked him if he wanted to paint the exterior of the building as it’s very old and dated - on the tenancy conditions you don’t need permission for painting interior or exterior - he refused that also.

I have done couple small things around the building which have been in his interest also without charging him half of cost of materials. 

When I moved in and was fixing up the place- I had waste  bags placed on the walkway where side gate is, ( not in the way at all ) I was going to move them within 24 hours as I was trying to place them where it would be closer for me to put them in car in order  to take to the dumb yard - rather then from all the way to back of garden to car. He knocks on my door and tells me to move them as it’s not a nice view from his kitchen window. So moved them to back or garden. 

I’m trying to make the building we both live in acceptable !

He does NOT compromise- why should I have to bend over and allow him use of what’s mine on lease plans ( well not yet ) 

I don’t agree that the front garden is all his but I respect the councils rules. 

As mentioned above it’s all hearsay of what his housing officer told him 13 years ago