20mph speed limit in residential areas to be made law (In Wales)

Stubod

Noted this item on the news today. Probably no bad thing.

Should they also reduce the national speed limit from 60mph to 50mph given that on most roads given their condition and amount of traffic you would be hard pushed to achieve this speed for any length of time anyway? Also on a 30 mile journey it would only make a few minutes difference to your overall journey time.

This would also reduce fuel consumption, (and extend the battery range of EV's) while reducing pollution and reduce the risk of accidents?

Username03725

Stubod said:

Should they also reduce the national speed limit from 60mph to 50mph given that on most roads given their condition and amount of traffic you would be hard pushed to achieve this speed for any length of time anyway? Also on a 30 mile journey it would only make a few minutes difference to your overall journey time.

Please no. There's a myth that any country road is a narrow twisting affair with high banks and overhanging trees and horse-riders round every corner, when the reality is that most are fairly direct routes between villages. 60 isn't anything close to outrageous or even unachievable on most NSL roads. On B and especially A roads the 60 limit is already too low in some places, but we accept it as a reasonable compromise.

Oxfordshire has for years had a policy of enforcing 50 limits here there & everywhere, with the result that roads that anywhere else would be NSL are limited to 50. Not many of us drive somewhere for the sake of it, a lot of travel is business related and slowing it down in this way is a real pain, and is made worse by the fact that on a normal NSL road traffic will tend to flow at a little over 60 where conditions allow; on a 50 too many drivers interpret that as meaning it's a dangerous road (rather than a blanket political choice) so low 40s is the most they dare to, and you end up stuck behind some ditherer with his / her own personal traffic queue behind and miles of open empty road ahead, oblivious to the connection between the two.

The other thing about 'getting on with it' is that it creates a natural driving rhythm that equates to safer smoother driving. Being stuck behind someone doing 50 is so frustrating, not because of the additional time but because you end up stuck behind a driver who brakes for every little bend however minor, and who accelerates at glacial rates up to no more than ¾ of the limit in place. Slow drivers and slow speeds are a pain. Artificially slowing traffic  down even more in the way that Oxon has done, would be horrible.

Note - not wanting to dawdle along at 51 in a 60 doesn't mean I want to do 95mph instead. About 60 is fine thanks. It's safe, modern cars are built to be most efficient around that sort of speed, and it's safe. Crashes at those sorts of speeds are due to carelessness and lack of attention, not speed.

Stubod

..ta for the reply, I tend to drive around 50 anyway as I find it more relaxing and better for mpg, but I am also conscious of following traffic which I will help them to overtake were possible, or alternatively I will pull over and let them pass....

maisie_cat

Username03725 said:

Stubod said:

Should they also reduce the national speed limit from 60mph to 50mph given that on most roads given their condition and amount of traffic you would be hard pushed to achieve this speed for any length of time anyway? Also on a 30 mile journey it would only make a few minutes difference to your overall journey time.

Please no. There's a myth that any country road is a narrow twisting affair with high banks and overhanging trees and horse-riders round every corner, when the reality is that most are fairly direct routes between villages. 60 isn't anything close to outrageous or even unachievable on most NSL roads. On B and especially A roads the 60 limit is already too low in some places, but we accept it as a reasonable compromise.

Oxfordshire has for years had a policy of enforcing 50 limits here there & everywhere, with the result that roads that anywhere else would be NSL are limited to 50. Not many of us drive somewhere for the sake of it, a lot of travel is business related and slowing it down in this way is a real pain, and is made worse by the fact that on a normal NSL road traffic will tend to flow at a little over 60 where conditions allow; on a 50 too many drivers interpret that as meaning it's a dangerous road (rather than a blanket political choice) so low 40s is the most they dare to, and you end up stuck behind some ditherer with his / her own personal traffic queue behind and miles of open empty road ahead, oblivious to the connection between the two.

The other thing about 'getting on with it' is that it creates a natural driving rhythm that equates to safer smoother driving. Being stuck behind someone doing 50 is so frustrating, not because of the additional time but because you end up stuck behind a driver who brakes for every little bend however minor, and who accelerates at glacial rates up to no more than ¾ of the limit in place. Slow drivers and slow speeds are a pain. Artificially slowing traffic  down even more in the way that Oxon has done, would be horrible.

Note - not wanting to dawdle along at 51 in a 60 doesn't mean I want to do 95mph instead. About 60 is fine thanks. It's safe, modern cars are built to be most efficient around that sort of speed, and it's safe. Crashes at those sorts of speeds are due to carelessness and lack of attention, not speed.

I live on a  mile section of 60 MPH road between a 30 and a 40, it has no pavements and the verges are rough. On average I would say the speed travelled in cars exceeds 70, 80 for bikes. It's a pain because everybody speeds up, and there is some very dangerous passing of caravans and tractors before the speed limit reduces again. While I agree with you for longer sections, I'm hoping that the speed limit is reduced so that the "safer smoother driving" prevails.
If you find driving at 40 or 50 "frustrating" you may need to find a way to relax and just go with the flow, that in itself might improve road safety

tacpot12

I am very much in agreement with Username03725. Traffic might mean that for some of the time 60mph would be unsafe, but I think the speed limit should be set for the road, not the conditions. The driver is responsible for driving to the conditions - take this responsibility away from them and they will have more accidents, not less. Testing has shown this. 

Username03725

If you find driving at 40 or 50 "frustrating" you may need to find a way to relax and just go with the flow, that in itself might improve road safety

I do. Just because I find it frustrating doesn't mean I have steam coming out of my ears and am constantly looking to overtake at every opportunity. I find it frustrating but accept that I'm stuck with it and just let it go, until a safe overtaking opportunity arises. Most of us tend to use the same roads and know where it's safe to pass and where it's not. No point getting het up about it.

Thanks for the advice.

AdrianC

tacpot12 said:

...but I think the speed limit should be set for the road, not the conditions...

Except we're talking about the national defaults here, not specific-road limits.

40, 50, s/c 60 - they're specific road exceptions to the defaults.
30, s/c 60, d/c 70 - they're national defaults.

Martin_the_Unjust

Stubod said:

..ta for the reply, I tend to drive around 50 anyway as I find it more relaxing and better for mpg, but I am also conscious of following traffic which I will help them to overtake were possible, or alternatively I will pull over and let them pass....

You do know that your way of driving would be a fail on a driving test don’t you?

Username03725

I tend to drive around 50 anyway as I find it more relaxing and better for mpg, but I am also conscious of following traffic which I will help them to overtake were possible, or alternatively I will pull over and let them pass....

Hmm. I'm sure you're a lovely chap and kind, thoughtful, good to your kids and look after small animals etc, but this is what frustrates those of us who prefer to make reasonable progress. You're "conscious of following traffic [and] will help them to overtake were possible", but that means where it's not possible your desire to have a relaxing trundle along at 50 saving a tiny miniscule amount per mile in fuel costs overrides everyone who isn't just out for a relaxing pootle and would rather be on their way to where they need to be. Again - it's not the time factor, it's the feeling of being held up for no good reason other than someone deciding that his/her own personal speed limit overrides the prevailing posted limit.

Not for nothing is 'failure to make reasonable progress' a driving test fail.

cymruchris

I don't necessarily think that a blanket rule for all roads is really appropriate - there'd obviously be a lot of time and energy consumed assessing roads for speed limits - and there are places where 20, 30, 40, 50 are appropriate (no argument there) - but also don't want to see the generalised reduction of speed limits left right and centre just because it might make a good headline for the more mature voters to support. Cars are much safer than they once were, and there are other traffic calming measures that can be employed in higher risk areas if needed, alongside lower speed limits where appropriate - but we don't all need to be dropped down to 50/40/30/20 just because it's a particular type of road.

There's a dual carriageway near where I live that was 70mph (national speed limit) for years, decades even. Not long ago some bright spark introduced a 50mph limit for several miles in order to 'reduce pollution' (you can probably guess I don't agree with it - as there are many ways we could cut pollution more quickly - but we won't worry about those). Pre-covid times in rush hour you were lucky to get 20-30mph average along this stretch of road - and that certainly doesn't improve pollution - but at 9pm or midday - the traffic flow is very light, the roads are clear in good condition, it's a dual carriageway, and has a central reservation, is lit at night, and yet everyone is dawdling along at 50 (because of the average speed cameras), and the supposed saving in polluting gases doesn't really feel evident (and no data has been released that I can see to show that there's been any material change). And for the record I'm not a speed freak that wants to travel everywhere at 120mph. 

prowla

The speed limit on my road is 30 and it's fine if you drive at 30, but some still go along at 40+.

There are School 20 mph flashing lights and people still go along at 40; I've driven at 20 in that stretch and had people revving behind me and gesturing at me.

So, the change from 30 to 20 would likely achieve little, as the careful drivers do the right thing anyway and the inconsiderate ones will speed anyway.

OTOH, there are also inconsiderate drivers who drive too slowly and hold up people behind them, for example doing 40 or 50 on an NSL road; they probably thinking that they are careful drivers but really they are being a bit selfish. The ones who then flash you if you overtake them are particularly irksome.

And then, possibly worst of all, are the ones who do 40 everywhere, so they're holding you up on a 60 road and then pull away from you when you get to a 30.