SHOULD I BUY A DIESEL

BOWFER

Dolor said:

FWiW, anyone who is only doing 6000 miles a year really needs to consider a secondhand EV. If I was still driving 25k miles a year then my default position would still be a diesel - ‘warts n all’.

Entirely depends on the sort of journeys that make up the 25K a year.
There's plenty of EV owners doing that sort of yearly mileage and more, and saving a fortune on fuel at the same time.
Example, someone commuting 50 miles each way x 240 days a year.
Perfectly do-able in many EVs.

maxmycardagain

Interesting...

20,000 miles at 55mpg = My Skoda Superb would have cost £1700 in diesel

BUT, it was probably a lot cheaper to buy than an equivalent sized EV - if there is one? (other than a Tesla S)

so fuel savings would have gone a much bigger purchase price (I paid £6000 3 years ago) and any HP charges (I paid cash..)

added to that, a plug in EV needs off road access or 30 minutes to charge at a charging point, im not sure what a charge costs

 

maxmycardagain

BOWFER said:

maxmycardagain said:

BOWFER said:

maxmycardagain said:

BOWFER said:

maxmycardagain said:

BOWFER said:

maxmycardagain said:

Avoid diesels for short trips and under 30,000 miles a year

why?
the car will be dearer than a petrol version to buy
dearer to service and more often
will cost a fortune to fix if it goes wrong
(recent bills £560/1 injector and £1200 for a DPF)
diesel is dearer than petrol at the pumps 

I had a petrol courtesy car in June for a day, it was nice to drive

and the "70mpg" diesel owners think they get?.......no chance

No excuse for anyone paying £1200 for a DPF
There's multiple ways to clean the one you've got, or even get a whole new one, for a fraction of that.
Buyer error.

well after 1 on an 2014 Audi A6 went tits up, had it cleaned (£325) and it lasted a week, Audi wanted £1200 then a Peugeot 508 1.6 had a DPF fail, dealer only part (new) cost £1200 I disagree If you ring Peugeot and ask for the cost you will soon realise im right (price was fitted inc vat)............and THEN after 6 months 20,000 miles the light came on again

we sold both cars ASAP

our cars are serviced with proper oil/filters and we use branded fuel, we dont do short hops, we could have had the CPF deleted but thats illegal

our cars are our business, we dont have time park up/lose wages nor borrow cars

I'm not doubting your statement that Peugeot wanted £1200 for a new DPF.
My point is there are plenty of cheaper options that don't involve the dealer.
Get a clean one on exchange from a DPF specialist, get one off a crashed low mileage car etc.etc.
You spending £1200 doesn't mean everyone ha

So youd fit a dodgy recon or used DPF into a machine that is your living to save (how much) knowing it might not last?

Find me a price from your "DPF specialist" cos even the dealers sell recons for £650 with not much guarantee

Every day off the road is £100 to £200 lost, worst it could lose me a contract....

£500 plus fitting seems the "specialist" price, for a fix...

Fine, pay £1200 then.
No skin off my nose.
But don't moan about it.

we had the "DPF clean" and forced regeneration, it only cost us more money

 so how many have you fixed, and by who pray tell, any recommendations most welcome

I could happily put you in touch with people who will fit a new aftermarket, or lightly used, DPF.
I could also happily recommend people who will clean them.
But seeing as I'm probably 400 miles at least from you, what would be the point?
By the time you drive up, your DPF would have burned off a heap of soot though.

Seriously, I don't know why you're taking the hump at me saying there's alternatives to paying £1200 at a main dealer.
It is MSE after all.

I did ask for the info

BOWFER

maxmycardagain said:

BOWFER said:

maxmycardagain said:

BOWFER said:

maxmycardagain said:

BOWFER said:

maxmycardagain said:

BOWFER said:

maxmycardagain said:

Avoid diesels for short trips and under 30,000 miles a year

why?
the car will be dearer than a petrol version to buy
dearer to service and more often
will cost a fortune to fix if it goes wrong
(recent bills £560/1 injector and £1200 for a DPF)
diesel is dearer than petrol at the pumps 

I had a petrol courtesy car in June for a day, it was nice to drive

and the "70mpg" diesel owners think they get?.......no chance

No excuse for anyone paying £1200 for a DPF
There's multiple ways to clean the one you've got, or even get a whole new one, for a fraction of that.
Buyer error.

well after 1 on an 2014 Audi A6 went tits up, had it cleaned (£325) and it lasted a week, Audi wanted £1200 then a Peugeot 508 1.6 had a DPF fail, dealer only part (new) cost £1200 I disagree If you ring Peugeot and ask for the cost you will soon realise im right (price was fitted inc vat)............and THEN after 6 months 20,000 miles the light came on again

we sold both cars ASAP

our cars are serviced with proper oil/filters and we use branded fuel, we dont do short hops, we could have had the CPF deleted but thats illegal

our cars are our business, we dont have time park up/lose wages nor borrow cars

I'm not doubting your statement that Peugeot wanted £1200 for a new DPF.
My point is there are plenty of cheaper options that don't involve the dealer.
Get a clean one on exchange from a DPF specialist, get one off a crashed low mileage car etc.etc.
You spending £1200 doesn't mean everyone ha

So youd fit a dodgy recon or used DPF into a machine that is your living to save (how much) knowing it might not last?

Find me a price from your "DPF specialist" cos even the dealers sell recons for £650 with not much guarantee

Every day off the road is £100 to £200 lost, worst it could lose me a contract....

£500 plus fitting seems the "specialist" price, for a fix...

Fine, pay £1200 then.
No skin off my nose.
But don't moan about it.

we had the "DPF clean" and forced regeneration, it only cost us more money

 so how many have you fixed, and by who pray tell, any recommendations most welcome

I could happily put you in touch with people who will fit a new aftermarket, or lightly used, DPF.
I could also happily recommend people who will clean them.
But seeing as I'm probably 400 miles at least from you, what would be the point?
By the time you drive up, your DPF would have burned off a heap of soot though.

Seriously, I don't know why you're taking the hump at me saying there's alternatives to paying £1200 at a main dealer.
It is MSE after all.

I did ask for the info

Poke it, you carry on paying main dealer prices.
I know I wouldn't have to and don't have to prove it to someone who'll never need it in my area.

DrEskimo

maxmycardagain said:

Interesting...

20,000 miles at 55mpg = My Skoda Superb would have cost £1700 in diesel

BUT, it was probably a lot cheaper to buy than an equivalent sized EV - if there is one? (other than a Tesla S)

so fuel savings would have gone a much bigger purchase price (I paid £6000 3 years ago) and any HP charges (I paid cash..)

added to that, a plug in EV needs off road access or 30 minutes to charge at a charging point, im not sure what a charge costs

 

The direct comparison of fuel costs and purchase costs are, IMHO, nonsensical as they reflect very different types of cost. Fuel costs are a running cost. Once paid that is gone. Purchase cost on the other hand goes to owning something that still has value. It's not as simple as a £30,000 car costs £25,000 more than a £5,000 in terms of cost of ownership.

For this reason, I think it only makes sense to compare (expected) depreciation costs over a defined time period (whatever you wish). This accounts for the obvious fact that a more expensive EV retains a higher value over the time you own it relative to a cheaper ICE.

Of course it goes without saying that it's probably likely that a newer, higher cost EV will have a depreciation cost higher than £6,000 older diesel...but the exact difference is not going to be reflected in the purchase price alone.

With respect to charging, depends where and how you are charging it. If you can do all of your charging at home (i.e. your daily commute is less than the maximum range of the EV), then there would be no waiting and the cost overnight can be as low as £0.05/kWh. In my case I commute around 70-80miles and that uses around 50% of my battery. Overnight it can charge within the 4hours off peak rate of £0.05/kWh, so costs me around £1.25 per day.

BOWFER

maxmycardagain said:

Interesting...

20,000 miles at 55mpg = My Skoda Superb would have cost £1700 in diesel

BUT, it was probably a lot cheaper to buy than an equivalent sized EV - if there is one? (other than a Tesla S)

so fuel savings would have gone a much bigger purchase price (I paid £6000 3 years ago) and any HP charges (I paid cash..)

added to that, a plug in EV needs off road access or 30 minutes to charge at a charging point, im not sure what a charge costs

 

If you only paid £6000 3 years ago, then it's obviously an ageing Superb.
Even if completely reliable, you'll have had servicing costs.
Then, as it ages, you're looking at exhausts, DPF maintenance, EGR maintenance, timing belts etc.
These are all costs some ICE owners seem to conveniently forget when comparing with EVs.
Not just monetary costs either, inconvenience when they break is a cost.

Grumpy_chap

DrEskimo said:

For this reason, I think it only makes sense to compare (expected) depreciation costs over a defined time period (whatever you wish). 

Surely, the appropriate depreciation cost to compare is over the life (ownership) of the vehicle divided by the number of years of that life to give an average over the period of ownership.

onlyfoolsandparking

An interesting thread and one which has me thinking a little more now about whether I should buy diesel or petrol. I was in the market for a Skoda octavia VRS and I was definitely going petrol but that's all changed now due to a direct request relating to making my job a lot easier so I'm now in the market for a Peugeot Partner WAV. 

I'm liking the 2016 onwards model due to the nice facelift and was thinking BlueHDI, cheap road tax and fantastic fuel economy BUT this thread has got me thinking should I stick with petrol? my mileage is around 12-15k a year, lot of town driving, little bit of motorway and maybe a few down south or up north trips few times a year.

Are these new BlueHDI engines a good diesel with them being Euro 6 or am I going to be having DPF problems etc?

Or is Euro 6 irrelevant, surely can't be many problems with a 4-5 year old modern diesel.   

Johnmcl7

Have you looked to see what options there are?  For that type of vehicle I found the choice is mainly diesel but I'm not that familiar with that model.

I went petrol for my last car as I don't do many miles and next one will be petrol for the same reason.

onlyfoolsandparking

Johnmcl7 said:

Have you looked to see what options there are?  For that type of vehicle I found the choice is mainly diesel but I'm not that familiar with that model.

I went petrol for my last car as I don't do many miles and next one will be petrol for the same reason.

Yep been studying the market for a few weeks now and I'm looking at buying mid August or I might wait it out till new plates come out in September, might be a few more come onto the market and prices drop (can't see prices dropping tbh it's a sellers market at moment imo) then again might not, it's a little gamble I'm happy to take. More diesel available than petrol that's for sure, the petrol ones are about a grand cheaper but the fuel economy and road tax on the diesels are enticing me.