leasehold wet rot

Sumeya81

I’ve just purchased a leasehold ground floor property and unfolded a scene from a horror movie. 

So I did a homebuyers report and they discovered ‘rising damp’ in the kitchen and bathroom. I then called out two damp surveying companies. One of them confirmed rising damp in kitchen and the other confirmed rising damp in kitchen and bathroom and ‘speculative’ wet rot.
I obviously addressed this during my conveyancing and the seller was adamant there was no wet rot since they had just recently laid down laminate flooring in the flat and would of known if this was the case. Their response to my conveyancer was that they would not deduct anything that is ‘speculative’ and since it was highly improbable that there is wet rot they would not foot the cost but agreed to cover the cost of the rising damp and subsequently knocked this off the price - a measly £3.5k.
I obviously took their word for it since they sounded so genuine especially since they had recently just laid down new flooring.
Another point to note is that there had been some external works carried out on the drainage a year ago which was included in my conveyancing regarding foul smells coming from the drain outside my kitchen. The management company arranged this work and I believe they forwarded the bill to the leaseholders. I didn’t think anything of this and just put it down to routine repair which had been fixed.
Another point to note is that the sellers took absolutely everything with them and I mean everything.. even the toilet brush! Not that I was expecting anything but.... I noticed they put fresh plug in air fresheners in a socket in each room (the relevance of this will soon prevail!)
So.... I’ve started the renovation in my new flat and decided to remove the kitchen tiles which were cracked to put some nice new ones down. After lifting the tiles we discovered thousands and thousands of drain flies appear from underneath the tiles and a soaking wet floor under the tiles. It was like a scene from a horror movie. My flat is now infested with drain flies but we had to dig deeper to find the route cause of the problem. We rip off the underlay tiles and find there are holes and rotting timber with sewage water from the toilet coming into the kitchen. Called the water company out and they discovered a blockage (so the company from a year ago didn’t actually sort the problem!). The water company unblocked the blockage which was caused from fats. The unblocking stopped the leak from the sewage from my toilet into the kitchen. So no more leaks... but he tells me this problem is likely to have been present for years and they would have known about it. The water blockage meant the sewage had nowhere to go and was gathering in the kitchen. He tells me the rot is likely to have spread and I would definitely need to rip out the bathroom to check there are no broken pipes (bathroom and kitchen are next door to each other) Furthermore this is likely to have affected the foundations and in a worst case could make it unsafe for all leaseholders (only 3 flats) to reside in the building.
This is my first purchase and I just want to cry. I don’t know what my rights are, who is responsible to fix and I have nowhere to live with paying a mortgage on this place so unable to rent somewhere else as well (I’m in London so everything is mega ££££).
Does anybody have any advice regarding this? Somebody who knows their stuff, please help!

anselld

Not sure about liability to fix but certainly foundations and possibly drains would be due to freeholder who should probably invoke buildings insurance,  You should probably inform them.
   However, regarding the leak... a blockage should not cause sewerage to leak out of the drain system (which should be sealed) in an invisible place.   It should be immediately apparent in a correctly constructed system that the toilets are not flushing freely, possibly a visible manhole may overflow.   This would suggest your system still has potential leaks below ground level and any future blockage will repeat the problem.  So there should also be a full drain survey and/or pressure test to ensure the integrity of the system now it is clear.

Doozergirl

Woah, back up! 

Why are you listening to a water company man about foundations?  Is there any evidence of subsidence, considering that you've just had a survey?  He's going waaay too far by suggesting people might need to move out - that's preposterous.  

The good news is that your 'rising damp' is actually this leak.   Rising damp is not actually a thing and if there were damp readings in similar areas, this is almost certainly your problem.  

Rot will only spread as far as the water travels.  

Yes, this is horrible for you but you do have £3.5k off the price to deal with it.  It's a matter of continuing to strip it back and replace what needs replacing.  

If you'd like some help working out what is what, please post up some photos. 

But please, take what you've been told with a massive pinch of salt.  That guy was scaremongering and I believe that your waterproofing salespeople (damp specialists) had no idea what they were talking about, because they mainly don't, especially if the surveys were free, or close to free.  

Drawingaline

We owned a leasehold flat. When we had the old kitchen ripped out to put a new one in the floor was rotten from an unknown leak from the bathroom (like yours next to each other) luckily the floor joists were ok. We had to pay to get the actual leak fixed, but the kitchen floor was replaced by the freeholder through the buildings insurance. 

Contact the freeholder asap, they probably need to get the insurance involved and may need to conduct their own surveys etc. Don't panic, get the leak sorted before doing anything else, we managed without a kitchen for two months, amazing what you can cope with when you have to. It was stressful and annoying (worst problem was doing our washing) as we had two children under two at the time, but it sorted itself out in the end. 

Sumeya81

anselld said:

Not sure about liability to fix but certainly foundations and possibly drains would be due to freeholder who should probably invoke buildings insurance,  You should probably inform them.
   However, regarding the leak... a blockage should not cause sewerage to leak out of the drain system (which should be sealed) in an invisible place.   It should be immediately apparent in a correctly constructed system that the toilets are not flushing freely, possibly a visible manhole may overflow.   This would suggest your system still has potential leaks below ground level and any future blockage will repeat the problem.  So there should also be a full drain survey and/or pressure test to ensure the integrity of the system now it is clear.

This is exactly what I was thinking and I believe the problem is a wider issue. The damp smell which was coming through the kitchen can also be smelt by the front main door on the ground floor providing the main entry point to all flats (mine is ground floor).
The water company said I had to rip out the bathroom tiles to check the pipe joists and advised the same level of liquidity in the kitchen will likely be present in the bathroom alongside the wet rot. I’ve contacted my management company and they still haven’t come back to me with a response. Ironically the buildings insurance renewal date was yesterday and the problem was reported yesterday so I don’t know if they might be sitting on this to buy some time before they report it but that doesn’t help me and I’m homeless right nor. FML

Sumeya81

Doozergirl said:

Woah, back up! 

Why are you listening to a water company man about foundations?  Is there any evidence of subsidence, considering that you've just had a survey?  He's going waaay too far by suggesting people might need to move out - that's preposterous.  

The good news is that your 'rising damp' is actually this leak.   Rising damp is not actually a thing and if there were damp readings in similar areas, this is almost certainly your problem.  

Rot will only spread as far as the water travels.  

Yes, this is horrible for you but you do have £3.5k off the price to deal with it.  It's a matter of continuing to strip it back and replace what needs replacing.  

If you'd like some help working out what is what, please post up some photos. 

But please, take what you've been told with a massive pinch of salt.  That guy was scaremongering and I believe that your waterproofing salespeople (damp specialists) had no idea what they were talking about, because they mainly don't, especially if the surveys were free, or close to free.  

Thanks Doozegirl, I really do hope this isn’t as big a problem as it appears since the £3.5k reduction will not even scratch the surface.

I will try to attach some pictures.

Sumeya81

Pictures attached in order of unfolding the root cause:

Sumeya81

Drawingaline said:

We owned a leasehold flat. When we had the old kitchen ripped out to put a new one in the floor was rotten from an unknown leak from the bathroom (like yours next to each other) luckily the floor joists were ok. We had to pay to get the actual leak fixed, but the kitchen floor was replaced by the freeholder through the buildings insurance. 

Contact the freeholder asap, they probably need to get the insurance involved and may need to conduct their own surveys etc. Don't panic, get the leak sorted before doing anything else, we managed without a kitchen for two months, amazing what you can cope with when you have to. It was stressful and annoying (worst problem was doing our washing) as we had two children under two at the time, but it sorted itself out in the end. 

Thanks for sharing your experience. It gives me a sense of relief that there’s a possibility the freeholder may help sort this. I inherited circa two weeks of building insurance from the previous flat owners who didn’t want the difference paid back to them. All on my conveyancing. Ironically the buildings insurance renewal date was yesterday! It is sorted and arranged by the freeholder/ management company and I had chased them regarding this but they said they will send me the invoice around the renewal date. I just hope this doesn’t cause any problems. As per the paperwork, the management company are responsible for sorting this but I’m just anxious about the timing of this surfacing.

happy_2008

Looks awful, hope you get it all sorted soon

sharp910sh

Sumeya81 said:

Pictures attached in order of unfolding the root cause:

Terrible. I would advice you wear gloves when touching raw sewage.

anselld

@sumeya81 .. nasty and obviously ongoing for some considerable time. 

However, you mention "unfolding the root cause".  So have you actually found the root cause?  A puddle under the floor is not a root cause;  the hole where it came from is the root cause.