Vehicle Control Services / Peel

outwestuk

First off many thanks to all who have posted here. I am looking for some guidance on a couple of points. I received 3 parking tickets from VCS, all relating to overstays at the Peel Centre Gloucester. These were all issued some 3 months after the contravention, and came about due to VCS changing the maximum stay from 3 to 2 hours during the first lockdown. I am defending as the keeper but not driver, lack of proof of driver, poor signage using the templates here. I have received one summons that I have responded to and have now received a second. A couple of questions;

- The second summons was issued without a LBC - is an LBC mandatory?

- On what ground can the allowed parking time be changed? I could not find anything in planning or directly relevant in their code of conduct

- Very temporary signage was errected in lockdown announcing the change from 3 hours to 2, bu this was conveniently posted during lockdown when of course noone was allowed out. What reasonable steps could VCS be expected to have taken to ensure that users were aware of this change?

- My MP contacted Peel LLP directly and had no response - should I have expected anything different?

Thanks in advance

Coupon-mad

They can change the parking time if the landowner says so.  In my experience, the PPCs lead the push to squeeze free parking time and tell the landowner that it's a good idea, and stupid landowners agree and let PPCs sue more of their customers. 

This is part of the rogue practice and it's a national issue.  Landowners and retailers need to start taking more responsibility for their out of control agents.

These were all issued some 3 months after the contravention, and came about due to VCS changing the maximum stay from 3 to 2 hours during the first lockdown.

Classy.  Typical VCS.

I am defending as the keeper but not driver, lack of proof of driver, poor signage using the templates here. I have received one summons that I have responded to and have now received a second.

You have no summons.  You have two N1 claim forms.  You are not 'summonsed' as that's criminal offences only.  Make sure you include the fact that the PCNs were not issued in accordance with the POFA 2012 so there can be no keeper liability. 

Also search the forum for the words Henderson v Henderson and add those words as well, about the abusive conduct of deliberately issuing two claims instead of advancing their whole case in one claim, at lower cost and court time wasted.

For more advice, tell us the ISSUE DATE of the two N1 claims, and when did you do the AOS for each?

Redx

neither is a summons , they are MCOL claims from the CCBC in Northampton, a civil matter , not a criminal matter , no laws were broken

no an LBC is not mandatory, but is typically recommended , with the 30 days notice + financial forms inclusion

the terms and conditions are between the landowner and the parking company, its an unregulated industry , at the moment , so nothing to do with planning per se

by adhering to the IPC CoP

no , not really, MP s get ignored all the time , hence why the Parking Bill 2019 was unanimous ( think of Sir Greg Knight MP )

outwestuk

Coupon-mad said:

They can change the parking time if the landowner says so.  In my experience, the PPCs lead the push to squeeze free parking time and tell the landowner that it's a good idea, and stupid landowners agree and let PPCs sue more of their customers. 

This is part of the rogue practice and it's a national issue.  Landowners and retailers need to start taking more responsibility for their out of control agents.

These were all issued some 3 months after the contravention, and came about due to VCS changing the maximum stay from 3 to 2 hours during the first lockdown.

Classy.  Typical VCS.

I am defending as the keeper but not driver, lack of proof of driver, poor signage using the templates here. I have received one summons that I have responded to and have now received a second.

You have no summons.  You have two N1 claim forms.  You are not 'summonsed' as that's criminal offences only.  Make sure you include the fact that the PCNs were not issued in accordance with the POFA 2012 so there can be no keeper liability. 

Also search the forum for the words Henderson v Henderson and add those words as well, about the abusive conduct of deliberately issuing two claims instead of advancing their whole case in one claim, at lower cost and court time wasted.

For more advice, tell us the ISSUE DATE of the two N1 claims, and when did you do the AOS for each?

Thank you. First claim was issued 29/4/21 second 1/7/21. In both cases AOS done within 5 days. Defence of claim 1 is submitted and I await next steps. (I did mistakenly pay a third ticket - issued first - but was recovering from an accident so didnt have the capacity to deal with it).

VCS know of all 3 claims as the SAR sent the details of all 3 to me although I have now requested a new way for the most recent claim.

I have used POFA throughout although my original appeal to VCS was that they were not POFA compliant. They also broke their own regulations by not issuing the NTK within the 28 days of receipt of my details from the lease company.

KeithP

About your County Court Claim with an Issue Date of 1st July 2021...

When exactly did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

outwestuk

KeithP said:

About your County Court Claim with an Issue Date of 1st July 2021...

When exactly did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

Just filed that today

Coupon-mad

 (I did mistakenly pay a third ticket - issued first - but was recovering from an accident so didnt have the capacity to deal with it).

Do you mean you paid a first claim this Summer?  Or paid a ticket (PCN) at the time, ages ago?

VCS know of all 3 claims.

Of course they do, they are the Claimant.

The SAR sent the details of all 3 to me although I have now requested a new way for the most recent claim.

What do you mean? You need to defend and include the Henderson v Henderson wording.

I have used POFA throughout although my original appeal to VCS was that they were not POFA compliant. They also broke their own regulations by not issuing the NTK within the 28 days of receipt of my details from the lease company.

They didn't break regulations, they just didn't comply with the (not mandatory) POFA 2012 and thus, liability was not transferred to you properly and the Notice they sent was defective in that regard.. It also didn't enclose the documents required of a Notice to Hirer under para 13 of Schedule 4.

outwestuk

Coupon-mad said:

 (I did mistakenly pay a third ticket - issued first - but was recovering from an accident so didnt have the capacity to deal with it).

Do you mean you paid a first claim this Summer?  Or paid a ticket (PCN) at the time, ages ago?

>> No I paid the PCN when it first arrived

VCS know of all 3 claims.

Of course they do, they are the Claimant.

The SAR sent the details of all 3 to me although I have now requested a new way for the most recent claim.

What do you mean? You need to defend and include the Henderson v Henderson wording.

>> Typo. I mean I have requested another SAR with their latest claim. Will definitely used Henderson as you say - presumably you mean it witness statement or defence? Thanks for that

I have used POFA throughout although my original appeal to VCS was that they were not POFA compliant. They also broke their own regulations by not issuing the NTK within the 28 days of receipt of my details from the lease company.

They didn't break regulations, they just didn't comply with the (not mandatory) POFA 2012 and thus, liability was not transferred to you properly and the Notice they sent was defective in that regard.. It also didn't enclose the documents required of a Notice to Hirer under para 13 of Schedule 4.

>> So I have denied liability as driver and they can not pursue me as keeper for failing POFA

Coupon-mad

Yes, all of that goes into your defence.

KeithP

I can't imagine you getting a further Claim, but if you do, to maximise the time available for producing a Defence, delay filing an Acknowledgment of Service to some time between the fifth day after the Claim Issue Date and before the nineteenth day after that date.

With a Claim Issue Date of 1st July, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service on 5th July, you have until 4pm on Monday 2nd August 2021 to file your Defence.

That's four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

ignavia

Did you complain to the landowner? They can cancel PCNs right up to the hearing. It is never too late.