Neighbour’s damaged gutter my rights

Whiterose23

Need advice please.
my neighbours are an old couple who aren’t at all friendly with either myself or their neighbours on the other side of out row of terraces.
They have a long extension at the back which  forms a large part of my garden’s boundary and as the roof slopes there is guttering attached . However all this guttering is bent and broken and every time it rains a torrent of rainwater pours from their roof into my garden. I have asked if I can repair it but they have refused as they say it is their boundary and I’m not allowed to touch or drill into their walls.
They have refused to fix the guttering.
What are my rights?

poppellerant

Take a video of the rainwater pouring into your garden from their gutter then shown the video to your delightful neighbours.  Tell them you are not prepared to let your land become damaged as a result of them using it as their drain and that you want the guttering fixing.  If they refuse, inform them that you will be sending the video to the council.

I don't know if this is something that the police would get involved in, as, in my eyes, the rainwater from the gutter will erode the soil in your garden and cause damage.  Perhaps criminal damage is a bit extreme, but surely they can't be allowed to damage your land due to their stinginess and neglect?

Jeepers_Creepers

Your rights are to have your ground and property protected from any damaged cause by their neglect.

Do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? Cool. These will advise you, and will almost certainly send an appropriate letter to them 'putting them on notice' of the consequences of further damage/nuisance being caused.

You could even do this yourself - written (evidenced) or verbal (witnessed) that you are 'putting them on notice' that they will be liable for any further damage and/or nuisance caused if they don't fix it.

If you are still inclined to fix the guttering yourself - often the simplest and least painful way to sort such issues - then perhaps you can be more firm in your approach to them, making it clear it's end-of-the-road time; "Still happy to sort this for you, but will be forced to take action if necessary..."

Whiterose23

Thanks for the advice. I hadn’t thought to look at my insurance and will do that.
I will also video the water but doubt I will get close enough to show them as the husband is bedridden and his wife aggressive and neurotic. My thoughts are that I would try to quietly fix the guttering and hope they don’t hear. I’m happy to pay for it as I think that one of the reasons it is partially damaged is from a history of ivy growing up the walls on my side, which may have caused the damage before I moved to the house a few years ago.
If I go ahead and have the guttering repaired would I be causing criminal damage? They aren’t able to see into my garden so would only know if they heard any drilling. I just want to keep the peace as I believe she has psychological issues. I recently put trellis up against her broken fence, which was an eyesore but she ripped it down as it was touching her fence. I have no idea at this stage if the fence is hers or my responsibility.

Jeepers_Creepers

In theory, yes, I think you'd be committing criminal trespass! In practice, there is no way on this planet that any action would be taken against you for doing something so patently reasonable, especially when all other avenues (other than highly unpleasant legal action) have been blocked by their irrational behaviour.

If you wanted to protect yourself fully, I'd have a witness with you when you next approach them to ask - once again - if they are going to fix it, pleeeez. Or, have your phone set to record.

NB - don't ask if you can fix it instead because, when they say 'Non' (as they will) then it would be clear you have been instructed to not touch it, so would be on dodgier ground if you then went ahead and did so.

So, one more witnessed/recorded approach to say - as nicely as you can - "the water coming out of the broken guttering is causing damage to my garden/land/plants/whatevs and you'd be really grateful if they'd get it sorted as soon as they can". When she tells you to foff, smile and walk away.

And then fix it.

You would have carried out the most reasonable/thoughtful/generous solution, and would have done this partly to sort the problem, but also partly to not cause upset to your neighb by having to pursue this legally. You are that thoughtful...

DRP

Whiterose23 said:

Thanks for the advice. I hadn’t thought to look at my insurance and will do that.
I will also video the water but doubt I will get close enough to show them as the husband is bedridden and his wife aggressive and neurotic. My thoughts are that I would try to quietly fix the guttering and hope they don’t hear. I’m happy to pay for it as I think that one of the reasons it is partially damaged is from a history of ivy growing up the walls on my side, which may have caused the damage before I moved to the house a few years ago.
If I go ahead and have the guttering repaired would I be causing criminal damage? They aren’t able to see into my garden so would only know if they heard any drilling. I just want to keep the peace as I believe she has psychological issues. I recently put trellis up against her broken fence, which was an eyesore but she ripped it down as it was touching her fence. I have no idea at this stage if the fence is hers or my responsibility.

I would just do this. If they see or hear then they can’t actually access it to stop you anyway, can they?

I doubt it will get to the point that someone in authority is investigating your ‘trespass’ or ‘damage’, but if it does then that is the time to show your video of the damage they are causing to your garden.

Rosa_Damascena

It sounds to me as though your neighbours are under considerable stress by virtue of their circumstances. Neither are capable of physically fixing anything and I would guess money will be an additional stressor. 

Not an excuse, just by means of explanation. You're not going to reason with the wife but your means of entry might be through one of their adult relatives if they ever pay a visit? Ultimately this couple need help, whether they recognise it or not. That means adult SS but it won't be appreciated.

DB1904

Jeepers_Creepers said:

In theory, yes, I think you'd be committing criminal trespass! In practice, there is no way on this planet that any action would be taken against you for doing something so patently reasonable, especially when all other avenues (other than highly unpleasant legal action) have been blocked by their irrational behaviour.

If you wanted to protect yourself fully, I'd have a witness with you when you next approach them to ask - once again - if they are going to fix it, pleeeez. Or, have your phone set to record.

NB - don't ask if you can fix it instead because, when they say 'Non' (as they will) then it would be clear you have been instructed to not touch it, so would be on dodgier ground if you then went ahead and did so.

So, one more witnessed/recorded approach to say - as nicely as you can - "the water coming out of the broken guttering is causing damage to my garden/land/plants/whatevs and you'd be really grateful if they'd get it sorted as soon as they can". When she tells you to foff, smile and walk away.

And then fix it.

You would have carried out the most reasonable/thoughtful/generous solution, and would have done this partly to sort the problem, but also partly to not cause upset to your neighb by having to pursue this legally. You are that thoughtful...

There's no such thing as criminal trespass and by trespassing the op wouldn't be committing and offence under the criminal justice and public order act. 

casper_gutman

Does the guttering overhang your land? That would be trespass in itself, unless you have consented to it. If it does, you could write to them and ask them to choose between three options:
1) They fix their guttering (or pay someone to do so);
2) They allow you to fix the guttering, free of charge; or

3) You withdraw any express or implied consent for their guttering to be present on your property, which will necessitate them either moving their wall back from the boundary by the width of the guttering or modifying their building so it drains away from the boundary.

Which would they choose?

I probably wouldn't really do this. Jeepers_Creepers' suggested solution would probably be similar to the approach I'd take in reality. I'd ideally try any fix it when they were out - they'd probably never even notice you haf done it.

Jeepers_Creepers

DB1904 said:

There's no such thing as criminal trespass and by trespassing the op wouldn't be committing and offence under the criminal justice and public order act. 

I'm going by - but happy to be corrected - "Trespass is not of itself a criminal offence.  However there are some offences in which trespass is an essential element and this guidance sets out the most commonly encountered examples of such offences."

I see this situation as potentially being - in its literal sense - the OP causing 'damage' by 'trespassing' on the neighbour's wall and drilling holes in it.

It's pretty clear you cannot just drill holes in someone else's wall. But I also cannot see it ever becoming a 'case' in this situation.

goldfinches

Based on the noise around here earlier this evening I suggest you do the work during the next England football match which ought to mean they can't hear anything at all, if you want to be really sneaky you can listen to the match through an earpiece and drill as they score!