Builder work & back bills

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

It sounds like you've had a bit of an ordeal! Bit complicated so I'll try and keep it simple. 

You hired the guy to do a survey on Property A which wasn't carried out. 

I believe the right to cancel applies to this transaction, the cancellation period is "the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the contract is entered into", for services this can be reduced if the service begins or is supplied. 

So either you cancelled and formed a new contract for a survey on Property B or the trader agreed to a survey and just did it on another property instead. 

If you informed him that you didn't wish to have a survey for property A after the above 14 days and he gave you a new contract for property B I'm not sure where you stand, it may be that he is entitled to his losses on contract A. 

But if he did not give you information pertaining to "where a right to cancel exists, the conditions, time limit and procedures for exercising that right in accordance with regulations 27 to 38" then the cancellation period is extended to either 1 year and 14 days or 14 days after that information is given and it's academic as you aren't bound by the contract. 

If you have an extended cancellation right due to the lack of information you can still cancel if the service was performed and bear no cost if:

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or

(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

Perhaps it's best to copy and paste the information you were given by email here (with any personal details for each party removed), as really this is the key point.

Regarding the work, I hope you haven't paid anything yet. 

Take photos of everything to prove your case, services must be carried out with due care and skill under the Consumer Rights Act.

If you have usable materials on site then you may be required to pay for those but if you suffered additional costs taking apart work done to redo properly then deduct that from the materials costs due.

I wouldn't be wanting to pay anything for the external insulation as it reads as if they haven't done the job to begin with.

What was the work to loft specifically? What was done and why was it inferior work? 

Posting photos here if you can is always helpful for giving advice as well.

macman

Anyone can call themselves a 'timber and damp specialist' and anyone can call themselves an 'apprentice joiner'. They're meaningless descriptions.
A surveyor who is pukka will call himself a 'chartered surveyor' and will be a member of RICS, so you can look him up:
https://www.rics.org/uk/find-a-member/?link=bottom-nav
Anyone can call themselves a 'surveyor': it's not protected in the way that a chartered surveyor is.
Looks like you took him on personal recommendation and failed to do the most basic checks.

Trus

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

It sounds like you've had a bit of an ordeal! Bit complicated so I'll try and keep it simple. 

You hired the guy to do a survey on Property A which wasn't carried out. 

I believe the right to cancel applies to this transaction, the cancellation period is "the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the contract is entered into", for services this can be reduced if the service begins or is supplied. 

So either you cancelled and formed a new contract for a survey on Property B or the trader agreed to a survey and just did it on another property instead. 

If you informed him that you didn't wish to have a survey for property A after the above 14 days and he gave you a new contract for property B I'm not sure where you stand, it may be that he is entitled to his losses on contract A. 

But if he did not give you information pertaining to "where a right to cancel exists, the conditions, time limit and procedures for exercising that right in accordance with regulations 27 to 38" then the cancellation period is extended to either 1 year and 14 days or 14 days after that information is given and it's academic as you aren't bound by the contract. 

If you have an extended cancellation right due to the lack of information you can still cancel if the service was performed and bear no cost if:

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or

(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

Perhaps it's best to copy and paste the information you were given by email here (with any personal details for each party removed), as really this is the key point.

Regarding the work, I hope you haven't paid anything yet. 

Take photos of everything to prove your case, services must be carried out with due care and skill under the Consumer Rights Act.

If you have usable materials on site then you may be required to pay for those but if you suffered additional costs taking apart work done to redo properly then deduct that from the materials costs due.

I wouldn't be wanting to pay anything for the external insulation as it reads as if they haven't done the job to begin with.

What was the work to loft specifically? What was done and why was it inferior work? 

Posting photos here if you can is always helpful for giving advice as well.

Sorry for delay in replying! Been quite a carry on here..

Not sure if you want me to copy and paste what they sent me as a property 'survey'? That is quite a lot of words.

Anyhow, this morning I have finally had two bills for two surveys, each at £500.
Interestingly, the payment details suggest I pay the builders personal account (although it was carefully specified it was 'For 'business name' ltd after the person's name)

They also sent me their public liability insurance from Direct line, which says their business is 'Property maintenance' - not sure if that covers them to actually do building works. Will phone the direct line to doble check.

I also had a bunch of in-house certificates proving the person who did the job was qualified. Training conducted in structural awareness, joinery, timber preservation, rot, damp, building works. The training conducted by this negotiator that kicked in when problems started arising. The negotiator signs himself as Office manager. Although as now know that their registered office is a dummy address and no offices are there.

macman

'In-house' certificates? So probably a half-day Powerpoint presentation in the office on building works, joinery? That's hardly a 'qualification'. 
The point here is that the person who did your 'survey' was not, on the evidence presented, a qualified chartered surveyor. Which means that you have no guarantee whatsoever of their competency. 
Bank payment arrangements are a red herring; it appears to be a sole trader rather than a ltd company. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Trus said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

It sounds like you've had a bit of an ordeal! Bit complicated so I'll try and keep it simple. 

You hired the guy to do a survey on Property A which wasn't carried out. 

I believe the right to cancel applies to this transaction, the cancellation period is "the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the contract is entered into", for services this can be reduced if the service begins or is supplied. 

So either you cancelled and formed a new contract for a survey on Property B or the trader agreed to a survey and just did it on another property instead. 

If you informed him that you didn't wish to have a survey for property A after the above 14 days and he gave you a new contract for property B I'm not sure where you stand, it may be that he is entitled to his losses on contract A. 

But if he did not give you information pertaining to "where a right to cancel exists, the conditions, time limit and procedures for exercising that right in accordance with regulations 27 to 38" then the cancellation period is extended to either 1 year and 14 days or 14 days after that information is given and it's academic as you aren't bound by the contract. 

If you have an extended cancellation right due to the lack of information you can still cancel if the service was performed and bear no cost if:

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or

(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

Perhaps it's best to copy and paste the information you were given by email here (with any personal details for each party removed), as really this is the key point.

Regarding the work, I hope you haven't paid anything yet. 

Take photos of everything to prove your case, services must be carried out with due care and skill under the Consumer Rights Act.

If you have usable materials on site then you may be required to pay for those but if you suffered additional costs taking apart work done to redo properly then deduct that from the materials costs due.

I wouldn't be wanting to pay anything for the external insulation as it reads as if they haven't done the job to begin with.

What was the work to loft specifically? What was done and why was it inferior work? 

Posting photos here if you can is always helpful for giving advice as well.

Not sure if you want me to copy and paste what they sent me as a property 'survey'? That is quite a lot of words.

Hi @Trus

No need to post the actual survey.

You emailed to say you wanted a survey, he came out to meet you and at some point you should have been given an email, social media message, etc or a bit of paper from the guy to say this is who I am, this is what I'm going to do, this is what it will cost and most noticeably this is your right to cancel.

Trus

macman said:

'In-house' certificates? So probably a half-day Powerpoint presentation in the office on building works, joinery? That's hardly a 'qualification'. 
The point here is that the person who did your 'survey' was not, on the evidence presented, a qualified chartered surveyor. Which means that you have no guarantee whatsoever of their competency. 
Bank payment arrangements are a red herring; it appears to be a sole trader rather than a ltd company. 

I know, right, totally a power point job.
Definitely a Ltd company, I checked their company status. The director is he builder's girlfriend. The company was warned with strike off but I see it was suspended as they provided an excuse why their accounts are late. 

Trus

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Trus said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

It sounds like you've had a bit of an ordeal! Bit complicated so I'll try and keep it simple. 

You hired the guy to do a survey on Property A which wasn't carried out. 

I believe the right to cancel applies to this transaction, the cancellation period is "the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the contract is entered into", for services this can be reduced if the service begins or is supplied. 

So either you cancelled and formed a new contract for a survey on Property B or the trader agreed to a survey and just did it on another property instead. 

If you informed him that you didn't wish to have a survey for property A after the above 14 days and he gave you a new contract for property B I'm not sure where you stand, it may be that he is entitled to his losses on contract A. 

But if he did not give you information pertaining to "where a right to cancel exists, the conditions, time limit and procedures for exercising that right in accordance with regulations 27 to 38" then the cancellation period is extended to either 1 year and 14 days or 14 days after that information is given and it's academic as you aren't bound by the contract. 

If you have an extended cancellation right due to the lack of information you can still cancel if the service was performed and bear no cost if:

(a)the trader has failed to provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, or the information on payment of that cost required by paragraph (n) of that Schedule, in accordance with Part 2, or

(b)the service is not supplied in response to a request in accordance with paragraph (1).

Perhaps it's best to copy and paste the information you were given by email here (with any personal details for each party removed), as really this is the key point.

Regarding the work, I hope you haven't paid anything yet. 

Take photos of everything to prove your case, services must be carried out with due care and skill under the Consumer Rights Act.

If you have usable materials on site then you may be required to pay for those but if you suffered additional costs taking apart work done to redo properly then deduct that from the materials costs due.

I wouldn't be wanting to pay anything for the external insulation as it reads as if they haven't done the job to begin with.

What was the work to loft specifically? What was done and why was it inferior work? 

Posting photos here if you can is always helpful for giving advice as well.

Not sure if you want me to copy and paste what they sent me as a property 'survey'? That is quite a lot of words.

Hi @Trus

No need to post the actual survey.

You emailed to say you wanted a survey, he came out to meet you and at some point you should have been given an email, social media message, etc or a bit of paper from the guy to say this is who I am, this is what I'm going to do, this is what it will cost and most noticeably this is your right to cancel.

There was nothing about cancellations and despite me asking no costs were mentioned. The 'outstanding' bill for the surveys only came up when I told them to pick up the tools and leave. 
U
I will attach a couple of screenshots. Original text message from him (my friend gave him my number) and a few emails about the first house. 

When I sent him an email asking to view another house, 6-7 months later from the first one, I did offer to pay him for his time as a gesture of good will. But he never replied to that part of the email so I assumed the service was free. this was in April when he looked at the second house for us. 

He says he will look at the damp issue but in fact he did a comprehensive property report and improvements advice. As it turns out there are some building regulations he is not aware of. 

Hope the images are attached ok .
Thanks for your help. 
thanks for your help, really appreciate it.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Without any information regarding the right to cancel I don't believe you are obligated to pay if you now advise the trader via durable means that you are cancelling your contract. 

I doubt it will go down well but he'd have to take you to small claims if he disagrees. It would be best to settle anything due for materials and any work that was done to an acceptable standard.

Trus

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Without any information regarding the right to cancel I don't believe you are obligated to pay if you now advise the trader via durable means that you are cancelling your contract. 

I doubt it will go down well but he'd have to take you to small claims if he disagrees. It would be best to settle anything due for materials and any work that was done to an acceptable standard.

Thanks!
Well there is nothing due to him as far as I can see as all the work he has done has been stripped off to reveal the shoddiness and the intent to deceive. He knows he didn't insulate one wall totally and insulated the other one with the thin patched of old loft insulation - not to the industry standard - yet he sent me the bill for insulating the walls yesterday. He has also destroyed the original woodwork around the window which was safe and sound for 150 years until he came along. So as far I can see the lying piece of work won't be getting anything.
I had his work access by several professionals and they all were horrified of the standard of work.