Builder work & back bills

Trus

Hi there. 
We used a seemingly experienced builder to survey a property for us in October 2020 and one other one in April 2021, which we ended up buying. 
I asked him (let's call him several times how much the surveys were but he never replied. We used to another surveyor on the latter property too but their services were free.

B has starred work on the room and insulating the loft. He spent about 5 days in the house and the longer he was here the more worried we were. 
He has left very dangerous structural issue unattended and in fact tried to cover it up so we don't notice he didn't do anything about it. Basically 90 percent of what he has done so far (and the job is not complete fully) will have to be ripped out and done properly. 

After a pack of lies that we were sick of and excuses why he did things the way they are, we decided to stop his service here so he never finished the job he quoted us for.

Had several second opinions on his works and all agree this hasn't been done properly. 

He now asks for money paid on the work done so far, but I asked to wait until I have things check by other experts. 

In the meantime, I checked his accreditation emblems on the paperwork and turns out he is not a member of any of the approved registers. His website is down. 

(He came recommended by someone else so never thought of checking before)

Now he also says there are two outstanding invoices for the 2 surveys he has done for us, one in Oct one in April. I was never made aware what the charge for that was, I did offer kindly to pay for his time back in April but he never replied re this and no invoices were ever made out. He just proceeded straight to the estimates for the new works. 

Can you please comment on where we stand on on this one? 

Thank you 
Trus

JJ_Egan

Lost .

Is B the first survey Oct 2020 .

Or the another surveyor .

Are these surveyors both in fact builders and not surveyors ??

Trus

JJ_Egan said:

Lost .

Is B the first survey Oct 2020 .

Or the another surveyor .

Are these surveyors both in fact builders and not surveyors ??
.

B is a surveyor and builder. He surveyed two properties for us. 

I don't know why I mentioned another surveyor, perhaps just to justify my thinking that the B's surveys were also free

lincroft1710

It is very rare for a person to be both a Chartered Surveyor and also a builder

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

So the guy carried out 2 surveys and now wants to be paid but didn't tell you before how much they would be?

In this case someone can only charge what is reasonable:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/51/enacted

(1)This section applies to a contract to supply a service if—

(a)the consumer has not paid a price or other consideration for the service,

(b)the contract does not expressly fix a price or other consideration, and does not say how it is to be fixed, and

(c)anything that is to be treated under section 50 as included in the contract does not fix a price or other consideration either.

(2)In that case the contract is to be treated as including a term that the consumer must pay a reasonable price for the service, and no more.

(3)What is a reasonable price is a question of fact.

Was this a full homebuyers survey or did he just come round to see what work was needed doing? How much does he want?

macman

Is he actually a qualified surveyor? did you check?
How much is he asking you for each survey?
It is quite bizarre for a surveyor to also be a builder, because clearly they are likely to benefit from the results of the survey by virtue of potential building work, and so cannot be unbiased.

Trus

macman said:

Is he actually a qualified surveyor? did you check?
How much is he asking you for each survey?
It is quite bizarre for a surveyor to also be a builder, because clearly they are likely to benefit from the results of the survey by virtue of potential building work, and so cannot be unbiased.

At a time we didn't check, this guy came recommend by our close friends. I see on his LinkedIn he has a business degree, still working for 4 or 5 limited companies (3 definitely been dissolved) not all registered in his name but in relatives names too. They all show as his current employment but only one that is actually still registered.

It says on there too he had a course is 'Surveyor' and 'Apprentice Joiner'

Does he have to be a qualified surveyor to do a survey on the house and call it s survey? He calls himself a timber and damp specialist and some survey was about timber and damp. 
Should I ask for copies of his qualifications? 

Trus

lincroft1710 said:

It is very rare for a person to be both a Chartered Surveyor and also a builder

It was mostly a damp and woodworm survey plus other bits and pieces on the improvements. Another damp and wood specialist companies came to do a similar survey and then gave me a quote for their work on the house, detailing what needs doing. The survey and quote was free 

Trus

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

So the guy carried out 2 surveys and now wants to be paid but didn't tell you before how much they would be?

In this case someone can only charge what is reasonable:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/51/enacted

(1)This section applies to a contract to supply a service if—

(a)the consumer has not paid a price or other consideration for the service,

(b)the contract does not expressly fix a price or other consideration, and does not say how it is to be fixed, and

(c)anything that is to be treated under section 50 as included in the contract does not fix a price or other consideration either.

(2)In that case the contract is to be treated as including a term that the consumer must pay a reasonable price for the service, and no more.

(3)What is a reasonable price is a question of fact.

Was this a full homebuyers survey or did he just come round to see what work was needed doing? How much does he want?

Had a similar survey done by another timber and damp company and it was free as then they give you a quote for their work. Is it reasonable to think such survey should be free?
He did a timber and damp survey and also some suggestions on home improvements. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Trus said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

So the guy carried out 2 surveys and now wants to be paid but didn't tell you before how much they would be?

In this case someone can only charge what is reasonable:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/51/enacted

(1)This section applies to a contract to supply a service if—

(a)the consumer has not paid a price or other consideration for the service,

(b)the contract does not expressly fix a price or other consideration, and does not say how it is to be fixed, and

(c)anything that is to be treated under section 50 as included in the contract does not fix a price or other consideration either.

(2)In that case the contract is to be treated as including a term that the consumer must pay a reasonable price for the service, and no more.

(3)What is a reasonable price is a question of fact.

Was this a full homebuyers survey or did he just come round to see what work was needed doing? How much does he want?

Had a similar survey done by another timber and damp company and it was free as then they give you a quote for their work. Is it reasonable to think such survey should be free?
He did a timber and damp survey and also some suggestions on home improvements. 

There are companies that carry out free damp surveys and these tend to be companies who also carry out the work, general advice on MSE is to avoid such companies as they will find damp, suggest expensive work to remedy it which, depending upon the type of building, may cause more harm than good. 

There are then independent companies simply carrying out surveys for a fee.

Whether those charging are still offering good advice may vary but the general advice for damp is to find the source and eliminate it.

Did this guy give you any information at all on paper or by email?

I'm assuming this is an off premises contract (i.e you didn't initially walk in to his place of business to have a chat about services he can offer)?

Is the work he was doing to cure damp/timber issues or something else? 

Again how much does he want for the two surveys? 

Trus

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Trus said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

So the guy carried out 2 surveys and now wants to be paid but didn't tell you before how much they would be?

In this case someone can only charge what is reasonable:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/51/enacted

(1)This section applies to a contract to supply a service if—

(a)the consumer has not paid a price or other consideration for the service,

(b)the contract does not expressly fix a price or other consideration, and does not say how it is to be fixed, and

(c)anything that is to be treated under section 50 as included in the contract does not fix a price or other consideration either.

(2)In that case the contract is to be treated as including a term that the consumer must pay a reasonable price for the service, and no more.

(3)What is a reasonable price is a question of fact.

Was this a full homebuyers survey or did he just come round to see what work was needed doing? How much does he want?

Had a similar survey done by another timber and damp company and it was free as then they give you a quote for their work. Is it reasonable to think such survey should be free?
He did a timber and damp survey and also some suggestions on home improvements. 

There are companies that carry out free damp surveys and these tend to be companies who also carry out the work, general advice on MSE is to avoid such companies as they will find damp, suggest expensive work to remedy it which, depending upon the type of building, may cause more harm than good. 

There are then independent companies simply carrying out surveys for a fee.

Whether those charging are still offering good advice may vary but the general advice for damp is to find the source and eliminate it.

Did this guy give you any information at all on paper or by email?

I'm assuming this is an off premises contract (i.e you didn't initially walk in to his place of business to have a chat about services he can offer)?

Is the work he was doing to cure damp/timber issues or something else? 

Again how much does he want for the two surveys? 

Thanks for your reply.

Yes the guy did give us some information on email. He didn't manage to do the first report on the first property as by that time we decided to go with another property anyway (that one fell through). He did send us a 'survey' and a 'report' for the one we bought.
He was contracted to do quite a few things here, drop the ground levels, refit a few windows, insulate the loft, but the first job was to insulate the two outside walls in one bedroom (which will be occupied by an old disabled relative) to keep the room warmer. They also started to insulate the loft. 

As the works progressed we had several red flags, their words and action didn't seem to match and they did a poor job insulating the loft. By that time the room was half finished, they covered the walls in questions in plasterboard. As I was getting very stragne excuses for leaving a serious structural issue unattended and covering it with plasterboard so it's out of sight, we told them to pick up the tool and leave until we get a second option. 

This weekend we opened up the walls they have put up to unveil that one wall wasn't insulated at all and the other was insulated with small thin patched of our old loft insulation. The structural issue was confirmed to be a big deal by another tradesman but an architect will look at it too. It's not that they didn't know if they issue, they discussed with us what could be done about it, but they did nothing. 

I have no idea about the cost of 'surveys' as it's all about smoke and mirrors, another person now leading negotiations with us by email and they stepped in as soon as issues started arising and I told the builders to pick up their tools. 

I have requested  for copies of the builder's qualifications to carry out surveys, reports and works and for a copy of company's public liability insurance. They just keep saying there is a bill to be settled but don't quite send it to us. They want paid for the work up to date and materials. 

And yes it was off services contract, we contacted them by email originally and they came out to meet us at the first property we viewed. 
What's your take on all this?