Volvo electric car savings calculator - anyone make sense of this??

AdrianC

Steve182 said:

AdrianC said:

Steve182 said:

I've not checked the calculation, but it should also be noted that they assume 23.9 kwh per 100km. In my experience ranges or distance per kWh  quoted for EV's by manufacturers are unachievable in real life conditions.

The range is calculated using the exact same WLTP cycle as for fuel economy in ICE vehicles.

I've never achieved the mpg levels quoted for any ICE car I've owned or the electric range quoted for my hybrid.

That's not what they're for.

They're there to provide a comparison between cars on a standardised test. If your driving style or patterns are different to the test, then you will get different results.

The disparity between theoretical figures and real life is not equal between ICE and EV. For example, winter driving in an EV involves high energy use for electric heating of the car's cabin. In ICE vehicles only waste energy is used for heating. This is not included in the figures.

The test starts with a cold engine - the ICE takes time to warm up, and that uses extra fuel.

The test is carried out at two standardised ambient temperatures. 23degC is the global standard, then there's regional variations. For the European market, the tests are carried out at 14degC, the European average.

Keep_pedalling

Steve182 said:

Ball park numbers for my BMW330E hybrid.

My home charger is rated at 3kw and takes just over 3 hours to charge. Let's call that 10 kwh

At 14p/Kwh the cost is £1.40

That achieves 10 miles on electric in real life so 14p/mile

Once battery is discharged I'm on petrol @ around £1.30/litre so let's call that £6/gallon

I've never measured it but I must get at least 35mpg from my car on petrol.

So that's 17p/mile

So where is the saving?

It's not fuel but company car tax!

My BIK for the hybrid is around £5K so paying  around £2K in tax annually
Were it a 3L diesel, BIK would be closer to £14K and I would be paying £5.6K in tax annually

Additionally, I charge it at work so my 10 mile journey home is almost free.

Savings in BIK are even greater for full EV's @ 2%

If that is the current model then you’re are getting terrible economy from its 12kWh battery, so I suspect it is the older 7.6kWh model, but even then you should do better in the summer months.

I get around 20 miles of town driving my Golf GTE (8.7kWk). Once out of town You get the best out of PHEVs by using the sat nav and let the car decide what power source to use and when, rather than driving in electric mode until there is nothing left in the battery.

I am on the Octopus Go tariff, so I get to charge the car for 5p/pKWh which will be even better when I go full electric later this year, and I should be able to achieve 1.5ppm for summer driving.

DrEskimo

Steve182 said:

Ball park numbers for my BMW330E hybrid.

My home charger is rated at 3kw and takes just over 3 hours to charge. Let's call that 10 kwh

At 14p/Kwh the cost is £1.40

That achieves 10 miles on electric in real life so 14p/mile

Once battery is discharged I'm on petrol @ around £1.30/litre so let's call that £6/gallon

I've never measured it but I must get at least 35mpg from my car on petrol.

So that's 17p/mile

So where is the saving?

It's not fuel but company car tax!

My BIK for the hybrid is around £5K so paying  around £2K in tax annually
Were it a 3L diesel, BIK would be closer to £14K and I would be paying £5.6K in tax annually

Additionally, I charge it at work so my 10 mile journey home is almost free.

Savings in BIK are even greater for full EV's @ 2%

No EV is that inefficient...that's 1mile/kWh.

Over the last 2.5yrs I've owned my Zoe I get between 3miles/kWh in the winter (120miles) and 4miles/kWh in the summer (160miles). My lifetime average has been 3.8mi/kWh.

As above I also charge over night at 0.05/kWh. That's 1.31p/mile on average.

ComicGeek

The reality is that I'm not willing to spend £60k on an electric car, I'm not willing to reduce the internal comfort I'm used to now to reduce this, I'm not able to reduce my car size significantly as I need the space for work and holidays etc. Yes, I could buy a second hand Leaf - but in the same way that I could have bought a second hand petrol Argo a few years ago, it just doesn't work for me.

So probably like a lot of people, there would have to be a compromise somewhere for me to make a change to EVs. If there's also no economic incentive in the running costs, then why would I bother? EVs have started to become a bit virtue signalling in our school car park, parked in between the large Land Rovers.

JamoLew

Totally agree - untill I can get an equivalent sized vehicle that costs the same per year to run then Electric is not for me.

I don’t do enough mileage to save enough to cover the additional up front cost

I currently have a mid size saloon circa £33k new and generally keep my cars 7-8 years and do ~7-9k miles a year.

Happy to see figures on how EV will be cheaper to own and run for me.

DrEskimo

ComicGeek said:

The reality is that I'm not willing to spend £60k on an electric car, I'm not willing to reduce the internal comfort I'm used to now to reduce this, I'm not able to reduce my car size significantly as I need the space for work and holidays etc. Yes, I could buy a second hand Leaf - but in the same way that I could have bought a second hand petrol Argo a few years ago, it just doesn't work for me.

So probably like a lot of people, there would have to be a compromise somewhere for me to make a change to EVs. If there's also no economic incentive in the running costs, then why would I bother? EVs have started to become a bit virtue signalling in our school car park, parked in between the large Land Rovers.

Your only options aren't a £60k overpriced, not particularly good Volvo EV, or a second hand Leaf.

There are plenty of options in between and will continue to grow over the next decade.

ComicGeek

DrEskimo said:

ComicGeek said:

The reality is that I'm not willing to spend £60k on an electric car, I'm not willing to reduce the internal comfort I'm used to now to reduce this, I'm not able to reduce my car size significantly as I need the space for work and holidays etc. Yes, I could buy a second hand Leaf - but in the same way that I could have bought a second hand petrol Argo a few years ago, it just doesn't work for me.

So probably like a lot of people, there would have to be a compromise somewhere for me to make a change to EVs. If there's also no economic incentive in the running costs, then why would I bother? EVs have started to become a bit virtue signalling in our school car park, parked in between the large Land Rovers.

Your only options aren't a £60k overpriced, not particularly good Volvo EV, or a second hand Leaf.

There are plenty of options in between and will continue to grow over the next decade.

I've been looking very seriously over the last couple of months, haven't seen anything that would work for me within a sensible price range.

Out of interest, what would you rate? £40k budget - ideally the higher range over 200 miles, but probably could manage lower if needed with careful planning. Prefer a higher driving position so have historically kept with SUVs - need a good boot space for work, and good rear passenger space. 

Grumpy_chap

ComicGeek said:

I've been looking very seriously over the last couple of months, haven't seen anything that would work for me within a sensible price range.

Out of interest, what would you rate? £40k budget - ideally the higher range over 200 miles, but probably could manage lower if needed with careful planning. Prefer a higher driving position so have historically kept with SUVs - need a good boot space for work, and good rear passenger space. 

MG5 has the range and space you indicate, but not the elevated stance.

MGZS has the space and elevated stance, but not quite the range (160 miles).

Steve182

Keep_pedalling said:

Steve182 said:

Ball park numbers for my BMW330E hybrid.

My home charger is rated at 3kw and takes just over 3 hours to charge. Let's call that 10 kwh

At 14p/Kwh the cost is £1.40

That achieves 10 miles on electric in real life so 14p/mile

Once battery is discharged I'm on petrol @ around £1.30/litre so let's call that £6/gallon

I've never measured it but I must get at least 35mpg from my car on petrol.

So that's 17p/mile

So where is the saving?

It's not fuel but company car tax!

My BIK for the hybrid is around £5K so paying  around £2K in tax annually
Were it a 3L diesel, BIK would be closer to £14K and I would be paying £5.6K in tax annually

Additionally, I charge it at work so my 10 mile journey home is almost free.

Savings in BIK are even greater for full EV's @ 2%

If that is the current model then you’re are getting terrible economy from its 12kWh battery, so I suspect it is the older 7.6kWh model, but even then you should do better in the summer months.

I get around 20 miles of town driving my Golf GTE (8.7kWk). Once out of town You get the best out of PHEVs by using the sat nav and let the car decide what power source to use and when, rather than driving in electric mode until there is nothing left in the battery.

I am on the Octopus Go tariff, so I get to charge the car for 5p/pKWh which will be even better when I go full electric later this year, and I should be able to achieve 1.5ppm for summer driving.

It's 2016.

I'd be interested in an off peak tariff at 5p/kwh if it was not just competitive for a few hours EV charging. I tried Octopus website but I could not get a quote without giving my email address. What's their daytime rate?  

DrEskimo

Steve182 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Steve182 said:

Ball park numbers for my BMW330E hybrid.

My home charger is rated at 3kw and takes just over 3 hours to charge. Let's call that 10 kwh

At 14p/Kwh the cost is £1.40

That achieves 10 miles on electric in real life so 14p/mile

Once battery is discharged I'm on petrol @ around £1.30/litre so let's call that £6/gallon

I've never measured it but I must get at least 35mpg from my car on petrol.

So that's 17p/mile

So where is the saving?

It's not fuel but company car tax!

My BIK for the hybrid is around £5K so paying  around £2K in tax annually
Were it a 3L diesel, BIK would be closer to £14K and I would be paying £5.6K in tax annually

Additionally, I charge it at work so my 10 mile journey home is almost free.

Savings in BIK are even greater for full EV's @ 2%

If that is the current model then you’re are getting terrible economy from its 12kWh battery, so I suspect it is the older 7.6kWh model, but even then you should do better in the summer months.

I get around 20 miles of town driving my Golf GTE (8.7kWk). Once out of town You get the best out of PHEVs by using the sat nav and let the car decide what power source to use and when, rather than driving in electric mode until there is nothing left in the battery.

I am on the Octopus Go tariff, so I get to charge the car for 5p/pKWh which will be even better when I go full electric later this year, and I should be able to achieve 1.5ppm for summer driving.

It's 2016.

I'd be interested in an off peak tariff at 5p/kwh if it was not just competitive for a few hours EV charging. I tried Octopus website but I could not get a quote without giving my email address. What's their daytime rate?  

Depends on area but mine is 15.59p in the day with 25p day rate.