Signing tenancy agreement before guarantor in place

MumOfTwoStudents

saajan_12 said:

MumOfTwoStudents said:

My two children are due to move into a joint tenancy student accommodation next week. However, we were advised at 5pm two days ago that one tenant does not have a guarantor. - okay, so joint and several liability so I hope they know & trust their co-tenants well!

They advise that they have been ‘chasing’ daily for months now - but they are only letting us know now. 

All tenants, including this one, has signed the tenancy agreement back in May. But nothing was mentioned about this one tenant having no guarantor. So now they are saying that this tenant can either move in without a guarantor. - the guarantor really protects the LL, so is the LL happy letting with 7 tenants and 6 guarantors to chase? Even if the 7th guarantor is in place, you could still be chased for the full rent. 
Or if he ‘doesn’t want to’ the remaining tenants have to cover his rent. - Well yes, its not 'his' rent, but they are all liable for 100% of it. So even if he and his guarantor are in place, if they don't pay your kids or any of the other tenants could be charged the shortfall and they would have to chase the non paying one for their unofficial 'share'.   

I get that there’s a joint responsibility here. But. Shouldn’t the tenants have been advised about the fact this tenant did not yet have his guarantor in place (given the ramifications for the remaining tenants if one isn’t found before moving in) before signing or at least shouldn’t all the guarantor agreements have been signed before distributing the tenancy agreements. - no direct responsibility to let you know, and given the co-tenants will be entering into a joing & several contract, the assumption would be they know eachother and communicate. 

Thanks in advance. 

The issue of communication earlier is really just one of customer service / being helpful, not their actual responsibility. At this point, the key is
1. ensuring the LL agrees to the 6 guarantors only and you get a fully signed tenancy agreement
2. ensuring all co tenants and guarantors communicate and agree to split the rent and pay on time (ideally in writing). Then if someone doesn't pay, they can be later sued for their share between the tenants. 

Thank you for the advice. I had hoped that agents would have more integrity than to let things go on like this for so long because really they’re not even protecting the landlord properly. I’m clearly very naive. 

It seems all they care about is getting the tenancy agreements signed regardless of other things being in place or keeping all parties informed to protect their interests. 

But I now understand that it is nothing more than a customer service issue rather than their responsibility. The other tenants were not aware this 7th one had a guarantor issue and it is possible he may not have even been aware himself if his proposed guarantor hadn’t told him that she hadn’t signed up. We will probably never get to the bottom of that one. 

I think everyone trusted that since the tenancy agreements were distributed to be signed everything was in place. I still don’t understand how they can distribute them when guarantors aren’t in place. 

I’ll never get involved in anything like this ever again that’s for sure. I dread to think where we’d be if more then one tenant had still not found a guarantor. Next year my two will rent a house together without relying on anyone else. 

deannagone

You mentioned that the tenant without guarantor might not have placed a deposit.  Is this the situation?  How is the LL making up a shortfall in the deposit if there is one?

Its a bit late in the day but I'd try very hard to make sure I was only being a guarantor for my children and get the 'severly' clause removed so I wasn't responsible for every other student in the house as well (presumably young people you don't know, they could get up to anything).

MumOfTwoStudents

deannagone said:

You mentioned that the tenant without guarantor might not have placed a deposit.  Is this the situation?  How is the LL making up a shortfall in the deposit if there is one?

Its a bit late in the day but I'd try very hard to make sure I was only being a guarantor for my children and get the 'severly' clause removed so I wasn't responsible for every other student in the house as well (presumably young people you don't know, they could get up to anything).

So far no. We are chasing him today. Although not in person as he is 150 miles away. I’m not hopeful. 

All we have been told is that we can’t get the keys until he pays his share. Nothing about how she’ll make up the shortfall. I would imagine it will fall on us. 

dimbo61

Hi as  a HMO student landlord we sometimes have this kind of problem.
Parents worry about signing a Deed of Guarantor form for their children ! ( Young adult off to Uni )
They read the Tenancy agreement which should be sent out with the Guarantor form and see how the Student Tenants are all on a Joint and Several Tenancy.
If we did not offer a Joint and Several Tenancy the local council could say we are offering bedsits !
Student would deny any damage that has been caused during the tenancy.
We do video inventory which is sent to tenants and parents.
Lenders often ask for parent guarantors with students who have No credit history so No point doing credit checks.
Students get Student loans paid 3 times during the year and this normally covers the cost of renting a room for 9/12 months and most students are honest and get on well together while living in a student house.
If the student without a guarantor fails to fill his/her room and pay then the other tenants should look to find a replacement.
Spareroom or ask the University accomodation office for help in sorting an advert.
Take lots of photos when your kids move in.
Check it is registered with the council as a HMO.
Check it has an EPC, EICR GCS Pat testing and HMO licence.
Check the fire safety, mains wired interlinked smoke alarms, fire doors, fire blanket, emergency lighting, turnlocks on exit doors , CO alarms etc

MumOfTwoStudents

dimbo61 said:

Hi as  a HMO student landlord we sometimes have this kind of problem.
Parents worry about signing a Deed of Guarantor form for their children ! ( Young adult off to Uni )
They read the Tenancy agreement which should be sent out with the Guarantor form and see how the Student Tenants are all on a Joint and Several Tenancy.
If we did not offer a Joint and Several Tenancy the local council could say we are offering bedsits !
Student would deny any damage that has been caused during the tenancy.
We do video inventory which is sent to tenants and parents.
Lenders often ask for parent guarantors with students who have No credit history so No point doing credit checks.
Students get Student loans paid 3 times during the year and this normally covers the cost of renting a room for 9/12 months and most students are honest and get on well together while living in a student house.
If the student without a guarantor fails to fill his/her room and pay then the other tenants should look to find a replacement.
Spareroom or ask the University accomodation office for help in sorting an advert.
Take lots of photos when your kids move in.
Check it is registered with the council as a HMO.
Check it has an EPC, EICR GCS Pat testing and HMO licence.
Check the fire safety, mains wired interlinked smoke alarms, fire doors, fire blanket, emergency lighting, turnlocks on exit doors , CO alarms etc

Thank you. That’s very good advice. I’ll certainly take photos and check those things. 

It is reassuring to hear that mostly these tenancies work well. Funds aren’t an issue whatsoever for any of these guys. In fact this place is cheaper than the private halls they are currently in and they all get on well. I just worry about communication and exercising responsibility. 

I think this guarantor changed her mind for other personal reasons that the tenant couldn’t move on from in his head so he buried his head in the sand and wasn’t seeing the updated situation and his new options. 

After a day of pretending to be my son on Snapchat hassling the group particularly this guy we have successfully got everyone’s deposit and the 7th tenant has even secured himself a third party guarantor so I’m *slightly* less concerned. We should be set to get the keys next week. 

Next year my kids are just going to get a place together by themselves. I really don’t like this tenancy model particularly when you can’t count on an agent to tell you about critical issues in good time such as these. 

I understand that the landlord manages this property going forward so I’ll try and get some agreement of how and when we are told about issues with rent payments and how she intends to handle non-payment. 

lookstraightahead

This is the normal situation for students renting. Most students don't really ask anything and landlords then get away with it.

my daughter had no problem with her co-tenants but the landlords each time took a little money from their deposits - small enough for each tenant not to make a fuss but a shed load of cash for the landlord.

Your two might not want to live together next year, it's worth them making independent friends who they can get to know well.

Mine has left uni now but will still need to house share in her place of work. 

MumOfTwoStudents

lookstraightahead said:

This is the normal situation for students renting. Most students don't really ask anything and landlords then get away with it.

my daughter had no problem with her co-tenants but the landlords each time took a little money from their deposits - small enough for each tenant not to make a fuss but a shed load of cash for the landlord.

Your two might not want to live together next year, it's worth them making independent friends who they can get to know well.

Mine has left uni now but will still need to house share in her place of work. 

Hopefully they will get to know new people better this year. Last year didn’t have those opportunities sadly. We will have to see. Maybe they’ll find a smaller group to share with. 

But yes I can see how this student accommodation arrangement could be a real racket for landlords. 

RAS

Do make sure they do the basics. Video or at least photograph everything before they actually move in, backs of doors, scuff marks on walls, snags in carpets, inside fridges and ovens, tiles and grouting.

Check all appliances, sockets and heating are working and report anything wrong to the LL immediately. Do the same when they leave

If they are paying any bills, then they need to read the meters and have a monthly "meeting" when they check it again and work out the costs. 

And remember, wood in t'hole and turn the thermostat down.

If they leave the property in the same state, with no more than wear and tear, they can challenge any deductions.

MumOfTwoStudents

RAS said:

Do make sure they do the basics. Video or at least photograph everything before they actually move in, backs of doors, scuff marks on walls, snags in carpets, inside fridges and ovens, tiles and grouting.

Check all appliances, sockets and heating are working and report anything wrong to the LL immediately. Do the same when they leave

If they are paying any bills, then they need to read the meters and have a monthly "meeting" when they check it again and work out the costs. 

And remember, wood in t'hole and turn the thermostat down.

If they leave the property in the same state, with no more than wear and tear, they can challenge any deductions.

Thanks. Good advice again. One good thing they have a bills package for energy/internet. Which, although possibly expensive, it should be easier to manage as payments will stay the same regardless of usage. 

dimbo61

If anybody wants to become a HMO landlord then go for it.
Lenders are more than happy to lend thousands of pounds to hmo landlords said  (No One) 
Room sizes, fire safety, security, dealing with students and worried parents.
Very few mortgage lenders involved in HMO lending, rates much higher than high street lenders.
Getting a HMO licence is expensive costing over £1,000 and involving an inspection from the HMO team at the local council.
Criminal checks ? 
Video inventory, gas Safe checks, EICR and even bin collections.
Supporting the local community and even Landlord training on Prevent,  Mental health, Fire safety with Fire officers, Visiting recycling centres, following local rules and Landlord Renting legislation.
Being on call 24/7 because a student has locked himself out or had a break in.
We have CCTV cameras and alarm system.
Students are fantastic tenants but Wear and Tear is often high.