When is a contract not a contract?

AlatMartins

This probably won't interest anyone, but this is what happened next:
I was late giving Virgin Media their pound of flesh 30-days notice, but gave it (notice, not flesh) on 27 May. I was told to expect a package in which to return their modem.  But when the 30-days were up, no package - shock horror  VM Broadband was still on.
I sent a message, then used their Chat:

Enquiry: What's going on?

Account number: ********

Account holder/Customer: Dr AL

Customers description of their issue:
Hi, I cancelled my service in May, giving 30-days notice, you (Virgin Media) cut off my phone on 21 June but didn't cut off my broadband.

You are now in the queue for a member of our team. As we are currently experiencing high demand for our messaging service, it may take us longer than we would like to connect you. we will respond as soon as possible.

Please keep your browser open and in the meantime you may find the answer to your query at https://care.virginmedia.com/care/home

Transferring to an agent...

Info at 8:26, Jun 27:

We are just connecting you to M who will be helping you today. They will be with you shortly.

M at 8:29, Jun 27:

Hi! Dr Al I hope you and your family are doing good and safe .

Apologies for the wait time and inconvenience caused.

I see that you have contacted us as you want to discuss your disconnection with us. Just to keep you informed , we are not from the disconnection team. However I can check your account for an update.

I can certainly look into this for you.

Before we get started,

May I take the 1, 5 and 7 characters of the secure password please?

The password I require is the one you quote whenever you call to speak to our team and not the password you use to access and view your bills or online account. I will send you a secure form to enter these details.

M has sent you a Secure Form: [Cable] Security answer request

Thank you that matched. Allow me few minutes to check your account please.

M at 8:39, Jun 27:

Thank you for your time and patience. I see that you are on our basic 50 mbps broadband and have requested to port the number to your new provider. I see that the work completion date is given as 29/6/21. However since we are not from the relations team, we are not getting a clear not on the account if your broadband will also getting disconnected on the same day.

Unfortunately today the relations team is not available. I would request you to kindly message us here in the same thread tomorrow so that we can get you connected with our relations team for getting a better understanding please.

Hope you will understand our limitations today.

While I’m looking into your query, is there anything else that you would like me to look at while you have me?

AL at 8:41, Jun 27:

Yes, I was told you would be sending me a pack for the return of my modem - is that correct?

M at 8:44, Jun 27:

That is correct Dr. Al. You will be receiving a return package to return the equipment back to us.

AL at 8:44, Jun 27:

OK, many thanks, I'll try to get back to you tomorrow, bye

M at 8:49, Jun 27:

I'll be happy to help you in future too if you have any other queries.

AL at 8:50, Jun 27:

Many thanks, bye now.

M at 8:50, Jun 27:

It was nice speaking to you.

You were patience and polite throughout the conversation. Thank you so much .

Thank you for getting in touch with us . Have a great day! stay safe and healthy

Conversation closed by the agent  at 8:50, Jun 27:

Virgin Media Survey Bot at 8:50, Jun 27:

We’d love feedback on your latest support experience.

It’ll only take a minute, but if you’d rather not to take part, just type ‘skip’.

How satisfied are you with the support you received? Enter a number 1-5 (5 being very satisfied)

AL at 8:51, Jun 27: 4

Virgin Media Survey Bot at 8:51, Jun 27:

Why did you give this score?

AL at 8:51, Jun 27:

Because although you were very helpful, you were not able to resolve my problem.

Virgin Media Survey Bot at 8:51, Jun 27:

That’s it! Thanks for your time.

Next afternoon:
AL at 14:56, Jun 28:

Broadband & Phone

AL at 14:57, Jun 28:

Cancel my services

Virgin Media Bot at 14:57, Jun 28:

We're so sorry to hear that - we would love you to stay.

Virgin Media Bot

Help us understand a bit more about what has made you decide to leave us?

AL at 14:57, Jun 28: Cost

Virgin Media Bot at 14:57, Jun 28:

Has anything changed on your bill lately?

AL at 14:57, Jun 28: Yes

Virgin Media Bot at 14:57, Jun 28:

Is this because an offer has come to an end?

AL at 14:57, Jun 28: Yes

Virgin Media Bot at 14:57, Jun 28:

Other than the price of your bundle are you happy with your service?

AL at 14:57, Jun 28: No

Virgin Media Bot at 14:57, Jun 28:

Ok tell us a bit more about why you are looking to leave us

AL at 14:58, Jun 28:

I gave notice of leaving you in May but you haven't disconnected my broadband; please help

Virgin Media Bot at 14:58, Jun 28:

No problem let me connect you to one of the team who can help you with this

Before we get you connected I need to take a few details from you.

Firstly, can I please take your full name?

AL at 14:58, Jun 28: AL

Virgin Media Bot at 14:58, Jun 28:

Your account number? Please enter up to 9 digit account number: ********* 

And finally, are you the account holder?

AL at 14:59, Jun 28: Yes

Virgin Media Bot at 14:59, Jun 28:

Thanks. Here is the summary i am going to pass to the agent . . .

Customer Details:

Name: AL
Account number: *********

Account holder: Yes

The customer has decided they want to cancel their services and provided the following information:
"I gave notice of leaving you in May but you haven't disconnected my broadband; please help"

You are now in the queue for a member of our team. As we are currently experiencing high demand for our messaging service, it may take us longer than we would like to connect you. we will respond as soon as possible.

Please keep your browser open and in the meantime you may find the answer to your query at https://care.virginmedia.com/care/home

Transferring to an agent...

Info at 14:59, Jun 28:

We are just connecting you to T who will be helping you today. They will be with you shortly.

T at 15:01, Jun 28:

Hi Al . Appreciate your patience. I am really sorry to know that you wanted to cancel the contract.

I totally understand the situation and I know how difficult it is to get a confirmation regarding the same, I apologize for the inconvenience.

Please do not worry I will try my best to help you out and will check what best I can do.

Before we move ahead, let us clear the security check on the account, is that okay?

May I take the 2 , 4 and 6 characters of the secure password please?

The password I require is the one you quote whenever you call to speak to our team and not the password you use to access and view your bills or online account. I will send you a secure form to enter these details.

T has sent you a Secure Form: [Cable] Security answer request

The following Secure Form has been submitted: [Cable] Security answer request

Fantastic ! Thank you Al. We are in ! Could you let me know have you received the email confirmation of the cancellation?

AL at 15:04, Jun 28:

It was confirmed in a phone call from Virgin Media on 27 May

T at 15:07, Jun 28:

I apologize Al, I did check on the account on 27/05 you have contacted us however only the number port was recorded to be exported over and not the broadband disconnection and so the full account has not been disconnected, do not worry I will transfer the chat to the Relations team and they can cancel the account with immediate effect.

However could you let me know the reason for cancelling the account? Or can we check for any better deals for you?

AL at 15:09, Jun 28:

Too expensive, was offered it at £26 monthly, but am a pensioner and do not need the fantastic speed VM offers, am getting it elsewhere for £14 monthly including Anytime calls

T at 15:10, Jun 28:

I understand Al where you are coming from. However rather than cancelling the full account, you can speak to the Relations team if they can offer any better package to you, would you like to be transferred to them?

AL at 15:11, Jun 28:

No, I already have broadband & phone from NOW have had it since 21 June, only realised recently VM is still on. Was awaiting a pack to return the modem

T at 15:12, Jun 28:

Okay not to worry I will transfer the chat to them so that the Relations team cancel the account and send you the return kit to post out the address. Is that okay?

AL at 15:13, Jun 28:

Yes thank you

T at 15:15, Jun 28:

I will now transfer you to our Customer relations/

Cancellation Team to help you further with your query. We request you to keep the conversation open as it might take few minutes for you to get connected due to limited staffing. Alternatively, you can call our Customer Relations team on 150 from any Virgin phone or on 0345 454 1111 from any other phone. First select Option: 1 (for Virgin Media); Option: 4; Option: 4.

AL at 15:16, Jun 28:

OK but will hold on here to see if connection happens. Thank you for your help

T at 15:17, Jun 28:

Please note: There might be an estimated wait time of 1 hour. If by any chance you are unable to wait on the chat you can call on the number given above as well. Please keep the chat open.

AL at 15:17, Jun 28:

Understood, will keep chat open

Info at 15:19, Jun 28:

Hello you’re through to the Customer Relations messaging team. Our opening times are Monday - Friday 8am until 6pm and weekends 9am - 6pm. We have your query and a member of our dedicated team will be with you as soon as possible. Please be aware that replies to this service are not immediate allowing you to get on with your day. Just to let you know that our conversation will be recorded, archived, and monitored for quality assurance and training purposes. Staying connected to this conversation means you’re okay with this.

AL at 15:19, Jun 28:

OK

Info at 15:24, Jun 28:

Hi, just to let you know you're still in the queue and it's a little busier than usual. We're sorry you are still waiting to speak to one of the team. We will get you connected to someone as quickly as we can.

AL at 15:24, Jun 28:OK

R BOT at 15:52, Jun 28:

Hey, thanks for holding. There's a bit of a wait for our retentions experts right now so as your virtual assistant 🦾

Let me take you through five awesome reasons to stay while you wait for a retentions expert...

1. Virgin Media has the best Broadband in the UK

2. Indulge yourself with an epic range of channels 📺, 

3. Virgin Media is the only major provider with ongoing servicing and repairs 

4. Data-free messaging with Virgin Mobile 

5. Watch your way. Watch up to 100 live channels, TV 

Okay, so the wait times are now up to 45 minutes ⏱️ would you still like to hold for a retentions expert?

Yes I'll hold 🎶

AL at 15:53, Jun 28:

Yes I'll hold 🎶

R BOT at 15:54, Jun 28:

Alright then 😄 we'll continue connecting you too a customer retention expert...

Hi Al I am sorry for the wait times and thank you so much for your patience. I can see you have cleared account security already which is great. If you could give me a few moments I will look into your query and I will be with you shortly. In the meantime please reply back to this message and please confirm If you are the account holder? Could you also provide your preferred contact number and email address so we can update our systems and have the most up to date contact information for you.

AL at 15:55, Jun 28:

Yes am account holder, ******** and ********

B at 16:09, Jun 28:

Hi Al, I see here that you have a concern to your services, correct?

AL at 16:10, Jun 28:

Yes, I cancelled on 27 May but still have broadband connected

B at 16:12, Jun 28:

I understand that Al and I can definitely help you.

Let me check your account.

AL at 16:12, Jun 28:

Thank you

B at 16:17, Jun 28:

I see here that you have a porting of number Al. You can contact your provider now to make the export completed. Once that is completed, your services is automatically cancelled.

AL at 16:18, Jun 28:

My number was ported on 21 June but your broadband is still on

B at 16:19, Jun 28:

On our system, the exporting of number is not completed yet that's why your broadband was still active. You can contact the sky and tell them to complete the exporting of number so your broadband will be cancelled.

AL at 16:19, Jun 28:

Sky? What has Sky to do with it?

B at 16:20, Jun 28:

I'm sorry. Your new provider Aldo.

AL at 16:20, Jun 28:

I gave VM 30-days notice, it's up to VM

The only reason I knew something was wrong is the package for return or your modem hasn't arrived

B at 16:21, Jun 28:

Once the exporting of number to our system is completed, your services will be cancelled.

AL at 16:21, Jun 28:

Not good enough.   I switched, it's up to you.  Cut me off

B at 16:22, Jun 28:

This processed will be do by your new provider and VM.

So tell to your new provider that we have a exporting of number that they need to accept so your services will be cancelled.

AL at 16:23, Jun 28:

New provider has exported the number, your system is faulty

B at 16:24, Jun 28:

The request was not completed yet. This is your new provider faults. So tell them to accept the exporting number.

AL at 16:25, Jun 28:

Your colleague T said earlier only the number port was recorded to be exported over and not the broadband disconnection and so the full account has not been disconnected, do not worry I will transfer the chat to the Relations team and they can cancel the account with immediate effect.

B at 16:27, Jun 28:

I'm from retentions team and I know all of the process. That's why I told to you a while ago, once the exporting is completed, your broadband will be cancelled.

AL at 16:27, Jun 28:

Are you saying VM cannot cancel broadband?

B at 16:28, Jun 28:

I said, once the exporting of number completed, your broadband will be cancelled as well.

AL at 16:29, Jun 28:

Exporting the number IS completed

The number was exported on 20 June

B at 16:31, Jun 28:

You can contact you new provider and tell to accept our request for the exporting so your broadband will be cancelled as soon as possible.

AL at 16:32, Jun 28:

Is this normal procedure?

B at 16:32, Jun 28:

Because if you want to export your number, this will be a produce handled by provider to provider request.

AL at 16:32, Jun 28:

Will be sending a formal complaint because I have the impression you are being deliberately unhelpful

I "don't want to export my number", I switched from VM to NOW some7 days ago giving due notice in May

Please put your manager on

B at 16:41, Jun 28:

I see here on the 29th of June, this exporting of number will be complete. Once it will completed, your broadband will be cancelled. So that is tomorrow.

AL at 16:42, Jun 28:

Are you sure? Why 29 June?

B at 16:45, Jun 28:

Yes. Based on my system. But to make sure, you can contact your new provider to accept this exporting of number.

AL at 16:47, Jun 28:

I rather think this isn't the end of the matter. I hope you have been forthcoming with the correct information. I change broadband & utilities every June and have never had such difficulty. Have a nice evening!

B at 16:53, Jun 28:

I understand that Al. All of the information was based here to your account.

AL at 16:57, Jun 28:

OK, thank you.

B at 17:04, Jun 28:

It’s been lovely speaking with you today, look after yourself and stay safe.

AL at 17:04, Jun 28:

Take care yourself (a blessing, not a threat!)
B at 17:07, Thank you so much.

No doubt I'll have to continue paying TWO broadband providers until it's sorted!

Fosterdog

Why are you making this so complicated? Just contact your new provider and get them to finalise from their end and VM will be sorted. 

There are two ways to end your contract, one is by retaining your number the current service will remain active until the new provider takes over the like. The second way is to outright cancel but this way you lose your number and have a longer period of disconnection before a new provider can connect you.

You went with the option to port your number so VM can't close it off on their end until your new provider fix it from their end.

born_again

But porting phone will not end the broadband. Even if the OP is using the new phone provider for their internet. As Virgin is supplied via cable & not phone line.

AlatMartins

Apologies for delay in updating, I've been awaiting events.  There's some good news, some not so good:

On Tuesday 29 June, the day after that long Chat session with Virgin Media, Mr R from Virgin Media Customer Service phoned me from 0345 454 1111 to say "Apologies, apologies, it's all our fault, the phone was passed over correctly but we forgot to cancel the broadband."
Which is what VM's T said yesterday although shortly afterwards VM's B denied it.. 

Mr R couldn't apologise enough, thanked me for being so patient, said the broadband service would be cancelled that day and there'd be nothing more for me to pay. 

Today, 9 July, Virgin Media is still sending its unwanted broadband to me, with another bill payable tomorrow.

Despite all my unsuccessful efforts trying to get VM to close down my broadband, my only remaining option is to cancel the direct debit; hopefully that'll prompt VM into action! 

JJ_Egan

(only remaining option is to cancel the direct debit; hopefully that'll prompt VM into action!  )

Be Aware

They may just hand the debt to debt recovery and trash your credit record .

Jenni_D

JJ_Egan said:

(only remaining option is to cancel the direct debit; hopefully that'll prompt VM into action!  )

Be Aware

They may just hand the debt to debt recovery and trash your credit record .

In which case you tell DR to take it back to their client as any debt is disputed.

You cannot get your credit record summarily trashed without them (the company, not the DR) first pursuing court action (e.g. small claims).

sheramber

contact 
Mr R from Virgin Media Customer Service phoned me from 0345 454 1111 to 

 

eddddy

Jenni_D said:

You cannot get your credit record summarily trashed without them (the company, not the DR) first pursuing court action (e.g. small claims).

That's probably not correct in this case.


VM treat usually customer accounts as credit accounts, so they'll probably report missed-payments to Credit Reference Agencies.

Here's an extract from their privacy policy:

We’ll exchange information about you with credit reference agencies on an ongoing basis, including about your settled accounts and any debts not fully repaid on time.

Link: https://www.virginmedia.com/shop/the-legal-stuff/privacy-policy

In fact, many years ago I asked VM if they would take me to court to claim a disputed debt, so that a court could decide whether it was owed.

They said "No, they don't do that", they said they'd just leave the amount showing as overdue on my credit report until I pay it.

So, after making a formal complaint to VM,  I had to complain to the ombudsman (CISAS) in order to make them change their minds.

born_again

Jenni_D said:

JJ_Egan said:

(only remaining option is to cancel the direct debit; hopefully that'll prompt VM into action!  )

Be Aware

They may just hand the debt to debt recovery and trash your credit record .

In which case you tell DR to take it back to their client as any debt is disputed.

You cannot get your credit record summarily trashed without them (the company, not the DR) first pursuing court action (e.g. small claims).

It will show up at banks systems as a missed payment. So the longer it goes on the more missed payments. The less chance of getting credit from a bank.

The number in your credit record means nothing to any lender.. Which Experian prove with their own advertising where the offer a Credit Boost for doing nothing....

Tokmon

Brie said:

I had an interesting discussion with EE about our broadband & phone service.  I had definitely signed up for a 1 year contract but they said that they were no longer able to tell me that it was coming to the end of the year even though it meant an increase in what I was paying.  All they could do is send a DD notice saying "£23 being paid on the 5th" one month and the "£35 being paid on the 5th" the next.  Apparently this was to remove the companies opportunity to sell more products to an individual.  According to the regulator this was a better option for the consumer then the possibility of not noticing the increase in the DD until after it had been taken.  (yes we should read these emails but face it most of us don't even assuming it doesn't get misdirected into the junk mail folder.)

Why would you not read your emails? It only take 5-10 seconds to scan an email to see what it's about and i would say most sensible people do read emails before deleting/archiving them. Also if you regularly find emails going into junk then you should consider changing providers; i use Gmail mainly and have no issues with emails being incorrectly put in junk from large organisations.