end of tenancy help! (AST to SPT)

olivia9988

Hi everyone,

Our 12 month AST is coming to an end in one months time. Our landlord has rejected our suggestions of a further 12 months with 3 + 6 month break clauses and still wants a further 11 or 12 months fixed term. Our situation is uncertain as we are currently in the process of looking to buy, so we cannot commit to that time period. 

My current understanding is that if we stay after the end of our current tenancy without signing a new contract, it will become a statutory periodic tenancy. Then if the landlord gives us a notice to quit (highly likely), that should give us about 4 months (due to covid) before we need to leave. 

(1.) Does the landlord have to agree to us staying or do we have the right to stay regardless and just expect the ntq pretty quickly?

(2.) How do we let the letting agents know that we plan to stay without signing a new contract? (In emails, the letting agents have not given us an option to stay without signing a new fixed term so we feel under pressure to sign or leave).

(3.) Can the landlord increase the rent or does the periodic tenancy follow the same terms of the previous fixed term contract?

(4.) Finally, If we do stay, will anything show up on credit records etc if we continue to pay all rent and bills and leave by the date of the notice?

Sorry if the answers seems obvious but just want to double check our rights!
Thank you  

grumiofoundation

1) No landlord cannot prevent. Cannot comment on whether they will actually serve notice on paying tenant...

2) you don’t have to let them know at all (although is worth doing so to prevent agents/landlord believing you have moved out and trying to access property - if you fear this would recommend to change locks). 

3) is there a clause in current agreement about rent increase? 

Landlord can serve section 13 to increase rent

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/67759920#Comment_67759920

4) Nothing will show up on credit file.

Hope the above helps, am sure other posters will correct if I’ve missed anything.
Are you in England/wales/Scotland/NI? Rules can vary.

Would recommend having a read of the stickies at top of this board https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5180214/tenancies-in-eng-wales-guides-for-landlords-and-tenants/p1

MaryNB

While the landlord may be annoyed that you won't commit to staying for another 12 months it would be silly of him to issue an S21. He'll just be cutting off his nose to spite his face. All he's doing is forcing himself to find new tenants 4 months after you move out rather than in how ever many months you need to complete on a property purchase, which could take more time. 
There's no sensible reason for him to do so, it's just being petty and vindictive. 

It is absolutely not in your interest to sign up for another 12 months with no break clause. If he does issue an S21, you don't have to move out when the S21 expires. You only have to move out after the court issues an eviction order which will take many many months after the S21 expires. The only negative aspect of staying beyond the S21 (but not beyond the order) is a bad reference from your landlord - which you don't need because you are buying. 

olivia9988

Thank you both for your quick replies!! This has been so helpful and has put our minds at ease 

The landlord is being difficult. We had a huge moth problem when we moved in and that took weeks to sort out, yet they reply within the hour regarding the renewal of the tenancy... 

GDB2222

My son managed to snap a key off in a lock for which he had the correct key! So, if you do change the locks, do tell the landlord and agent that you have done so.

newsgroupmonkey_

There are some dumb landlords out there.

Rule #1. If your tenant is paying on time and they aren't causing any damage, then it's in your best interests to keep them happy.

Come to think of it, if they have caused damage, as long as they're paying the rent, it's still probably worthwhile leaving things be.

Particularly in these covid times where a tenant could simply refuse to pay for 12 months and there's nothing the LL could do about it.

The landlord could give you notice and the tenants from hell could move in. Not to mention that people coming and going have an agents fee.

However, are you absolutely sure this is the Landlord saying this freely? My experience of agents is that some can be shysters. I had one who told me that the Landlord refused to do anything but sign a 12 month contract. As it happened, we had their email and phone number as we had a great relationship (we're still in contact 10 years later). They were absolutely stunned, because they knew our situation. We had a number of other issues with this agent too - trying to charge fees that weren't in our contract, trying to take money out of the deposit and a number of other shady tactics.

lonibra

This. The post above. If there's an agent involved you can bet that it's them trying it on so they can charge the landlord. Don't be scared by any threats, just politely tell him that this is what you are going to do.

saajan_12

olivia9988 said:

Hi everyone,

Our 12 month AST is coming to an end in one months time. Our landlord has rejected our suggestions of a further 12 months with 3 + 6 month break clauses and still wants a further 11 or 12 months fixed term. Our situation is uncertain as we are currently in the process of looking to buy, so we cannot commit to that time period. - if you need flexibility then do not sign a new contract. A 3 & 6 month break clause makes the contract pointless, may as well just be periodic. 

My current understanding is that if we stay after the end of our current tenancy without signing a new contract, it will become a statutory periodic tenancy. - it will become a periodic tenancy, either statutory (SPT) or contractual (CPT). Which one depends on whether your contract says anything about what happens after the fixed term - if yes, then CPT and notice is according to the contract; if no, then SPT and notice is 1 full tenancy period, in line with periods. 

Then if the landlord gives us a notice to quit (highly likely), that should give us about 4 months (due to covid) before we need to leave. - sort of, currently its 4 months notice, at some point this may / may not reduce to the 2 months from pre-pandemic. However once the notice expires, the LL would have to go to court, wait for a hearing, get a possession order, get bailiffs, ie another ~6-12 months before you have to leave. You would have to pay the costs for this bit, but the LL may not go through with it. 

(1.) Does the landlord have to agree to us staying or do we have the right to stay regardless and just expect the ntq pretty quickly? -LL doesn't have to agree, you have a right to go onto periodic. Once you're on periodic, they can serve notice as above any time. It usually doesn't make sense to but I don't know your LL. 

(2.) How do we let the letting agents know that we plan to stay without signing a new contract? (In emails, the letting agents have not given us an option to stay without signing a new fixed term so we feel under pressure to sign or leave). - You have no particular obligation. A simple email saying this is what you will be doing would suffice to be polite. 

(3.) Can the landlord increase the rent or does the periodic tenancy follow the same terms of the previous fixed term contract? - If he does nothing, it follows the same terms (there may be provisions on automatic rent increases). He can choose to serve a Section 13 notice to increase the rent on a periodic tenancy - then you can either start paying the new rent or challenge it and let a tribunal decide the new rent. Once you agree or a tribunal sets the new rent, that is the agreement so paying less would put you in arrears. 

(4.) Finally, If we do stay, will anything show up on credit records etc if we continue to pay all rent and bills and leave by the date of the notice?- nothing on credit records. To avoid a CCJ, you should continue to pay rent & bills including any increases according to (3). After the fixed term, strictly you can't just leave at the end of a Section 21 notice as it doesn't end a tenancy. If you want to leave you'd have to serve your own notice. 

Sorry if the answers seems obvious but just want to double check our rights!
Thank you  

Added some more precise background in line

olivia9988

lonibra said:

This. The post above. If there's an agent involved you can bet that it's them trying it on so they can charge the landlord. Don't be scared by any threats, just politely tell him that this is what you are going to do.

Yes! I think it's a combination of the landlord wanting the security of a longer fixed term and the letting agents wanting to gain financially too. The agents keep giving us a sort of ultimatum of you'll sign this new contract or confirm you'll be leaving. 

Thank you everyone for your replies! The suggestion of a courtesy email sounds appropriate. We're a bit hesitant to send it soon as we're worried this will give the landlord time to prepare for sending the notice. That being said, we can't know for sure that is what he'll choose to do. Our fixed tenancy ends in a month, when would be an appropriate time to let them know?  

olivia9988

Update:   

I emailed agents letting them know we are staying on and they have come back with the 'landlord is not prepared to agree to a periodic tenancy'. LL doesn't want to be left with empty apartment if we were to leave at a quiet time of year and therefore now agrees to a 12 month tenancy with a break clause after the first 6 months as long as we give at least 2 month’s notice to leave... "it would mean you could give notice as early as after 4 months to leave after 6 months and we would then have 2 months to find a replacement tenant?" 

Our contract didn't mention a CPT so the agent is talking about the STP which we have the right to, whether LL agrees or not. The 6 month break clause could potentially work for us but I'm worried they'll do us over with the wording and after all this, I'm wondering if it's better to just go with the STP??

Any thoughts would be appreciated  

Slithery

Ignore the agents and just stay in the property. It's your statutory legal right to do so.