Private Road - Do I have any rights?

TheCuriousSausage

comeandgo said:

Roads are dug up all over the country, the company doing the digging have to leave the roads as they were found.  There are also companies doing no dig insertions.

Sure, but most roads are adopted and the developers have to answer to the council

TheCuriousSausage

user1977 said:

TheCuriousSausage said:

user1977 said:

TheCuriousSausage said:

user1977 said:

Do you think the neighbour's rights to connect to utilities in the road are likely to be any different from your own?

But I am not digging up the road

Presumably though it was dug up at some point for your utilities to be installed, and they're going to need dug up at some point in the future?

My house and the one next door were the first to be built in the road 60 years ago so the road would have been built post construction. The road was then extended in 1984 for the other houses to be built so again, there was no disruption to the road 

But you have the right to have your utilities under the road, and would expect there to be an ability to dig them up whenever they need fixed or replaced, yes?

Yes, but I live here and would expect to bear the cost myself if I had to dig up the road and would ensure it was repaired properly. The owner of this development lived in a road that backed on to this one and cut his garden in half, keeping the plot. He has moved away and is doing this purely for profit. He would not contribute £50 to have the drains cleaned so he will not be interested in the quality of repair. It maybe I can do something before the building starts. If the road needs repairing after the house has been built and sold we will be liable

user1977

So what do their titles say about their interest in the road?

lincroft1710

If the developer does not make good the road surface after the utilities works have been completed then the owner of the road (or part thereof) can of course sue them for the cost of making good.


The time to have had a condition inserted into the planning approval that any disturbance of the road surface should be made good, was at that time the plans were submitted, not 1 year after.

user1977

TheCuriousSausage said:

user1977 said:

TheCuriousSausage said:

user1977 said:

TheCuriousSausage said:

user1977 said:

Do you think the neighbour's rights to connect to utilities in the road are likely to be any different from your own?

But I am not digging up the road

Presumably though it was dug up at some point for your utilities to be installed, and they're going to need dug up at some point in the future?

My house and the one next door were the first to be built in the road 60 years ago so the road would have been built post construction. The road was then extended in 1984 for the other houses to be built so again, there was no disruption to the road 

But you have the right to have your utilities under the road, and would expect there to be an ability to dig them up whenever they need fixed or replaced, yes?

The owner of this development lived in a road that backed on to this one and cut his garden in half, keeping the plot.

In which case, are you sure the utilities are going to be run via your road rather than "his"?

Section62

TheCuriousSausage said:

The council ignored the fact everybody in the road objected...

I did express my concern to the council in my objection that damage to the road would fall upon the residents but unsurprisingly they don't care. Thanks

If you are talking about the planning application then it is very unlikely they ignored anyone. There is a statutory process and the council is obliged to consider all representations properly made.  The law also sets out what matters the council can and cannot have regard to when making a decision.

Unfortunately many of the reasons objectors give as to why planning consent shouldn't be granted aren't matters the council is allowed to have regard to.

So, for example, an objection that a new property has no legal means of access could be a relevant consideration, but an objection about not wanting an existing legal access being used probably isn't a relevant consideration (unless it was unsuitable or unsafe).

From a highway perspective there is very little a council can do about the management of private roads, although some highway law applies to private roads in the same way as it does to public highway.

TheCuriousSausage said:

The owner of this development lived in a road that backed on to this one and cut his garden in half, keeping the plot. He has moved away and is doing this purely for profit. He would not contribute £50 to have the drains cleaned so he will not be interested in the quality of repair. It maybe I can do something before the building starts. If the road needs repairing after the house has been built and sold we will be liable

To be clear then, the garages being replace with the new house belonged to a house on a different (parallel) road, but this original house had legal rights to use your road to access the garages (at the rear of their property)?

If so, about the only thing that can be done is to scrutinise the exact wording of the agreement/deeds to see whether the rights that went with the original house included use of the subsoil for services etc, or if they were restricted just to pedestrian/vehicular access to the garages over the surface of the road.

It is also important to make sure the rights and obligations applying to the original house were properly retained/transferred to the development site, and that those go with the house when it is eventually built and sold. If it isn't done correctly you could end up with a situation (for example) where the new house owner has rights to use the private road but no obligation to pay, with the maintenance obligation remaining with the new owner of the original house, but with them having no need to use the road.

Is the owner of the road still around?  Has anyone living on the road actually paid the "vendor or her representatives" anything for maintenance in recent times?

If so, were the "vendor or her representatives" consulted by either the developer or the council as part of the planning process? Did anyone even attempt to do so?

TheCuriousSausage

user1977 said:

So what do their titles say about their interest in the road?

Exactly the same as mine (as quoted earlier)


"The purchaser shall pay to the vendor or her representatives a fair proportion of the cost of maintaining and keeping in repair [the road] regulated by the frontage to such Road until the same shall be taken over by the Local Authority such proportion to be determined by the Surveyor for the time being to the Vendor or her representatives

TheCuriousSausage

user1977 said:

TheCuriousSausage said:

user1977 said:

TheCuriousSausage said:

user1977 said:

TheCuriousSausage said:

user1977 said:

Do you think the neighbour's rights to connect to utilities in the road are likely to be any different from your own?

But I am not digging up the road

Presumably though it was dug up at some point for your utilities to be installed, and they're going to need dug up at some point in the future?

My house and the one next door were the first to be built in the road 60 years ago so the road would have been built post construction. The road was then extended in 1984 for the other houses to be built so again, there was no disruption to the road 

But you have the right to have your utilities under the road, and would expect there to be an ability to dig them up whenever they need fixed or replaced, yes?

The owner of this development lived in a road that backed on to this one and cut his garden in half, keeping the plot.

In which case, are you sure the utilities are going to be run via your road rather than "his"?

He has moved out 

TheCuriousSausage

Section62 said:

If you are talking about the planning application then it is very unlikely they ignored anyone. There is a statutory process and the council is obliged to consider all representations properly made.  The law also sets out what matters the council can and cannot have regard to when making a decision.

Unfortunately many of the reasons objectors give as to why planning consent shouldn't be granted aren't matters the council is allowed to have regard to.

So, for example, an objection that a new property has no legal means of access could be a relevant consideration, but an objection about not wanting an existing legal access being used probably isn't a relevant consideration (unless it was unsuitable or unsafe).

From a highway perspective there is very little a council can do about the management of private roads, although some highway law applies to private roads in the same way as it does to public highway.

To be clear then, the garages being replace with the new house belonged to a house on a different (parallel) road, but this original house had legal rights to use your road to access the garages (at the rear of their property)?

If so, about the only thing that can be done is to scrutinise the exact wording of the agreement/deeds to see whether the rights that went with the original house included use of the subsoil for services etc, or if they were restricted just to pedestrian/vehicular access to the garages over the surface of the road.

It is also important to make sure the rights and obligations applying to the original house were properly retained/transferred to the development site, and that those go with the house when it is eventually built and sold. If it isn't done correctly you could end up with a situation (for example) where the new house owner has rights to use the private road but no obligation to pay, with the maintenance obligation remaining with the new owner of the original house, but with them having no need to use the road.

Is the owner of the road still around?  Has anyone living on the road actually paid the "vendor or her representatives" anything for maintenance in recent times?

If so, were the "vendor or her representatives" consulted by either the developer or the council as part of the planning process? Did anyone even attempt to do so?

I did do my research on objecting and I believe it contravened 5 or 6 clauses in the Local Plan, but "out of character" is obviously subjective and my local council has a reputation for granting any new home to meet their quota. I did speak to a councillor prior to permission being granted and he recommended adding what I wanted if permission was granted. I said I wanted any damage to the road repaired to its former standard but no such conditions were added.

I do not think it will be worthwhile trying to sue after the event - probably cheaper and less hassle to pay for the road repairs ourselves if required!

The house on the other road had a "L" shaped plot which the garages are on, in line with our house. The only mention of access iin the deeds is quoted a couple of answers ago

The Land Registry guy was here a few months ago but it is not on their site yet

Nobody has paid anything for the road since I have been here (9 years). A former neighbour used to repair the potholes and I have taken this over. It only costs a few pounds for some dry tarmac and generally the road is in good condition. There is no owner of the road as far as I can tell - we are all responsible as per the deeds

When my grandfather sold a piece of land which needed access onto a private road back in the 80's he had to pay 20% of the sale price to the residents association for the privilege!

GDB2222

"When my grandfather sold a piece of land which needed access onto a private road back in the 80's he had to pay 20% of the sale price to the residents association for the privilege!"

That was in order to be allowed to use the road. Without that, I assume the land was worthless, in which case the 20% sounds rather cheap. 

I assume that these garages already have right of access, as otherwise they would be pretty useless, so whoever owns the road has nothing to sell.