Query about National Hunter, CIFAS and Mortgage

ahmjt

Hi forum,

I would like some advice here. I initially posted it to the Mortgage forum but was advised to try to this forum.

* MAR 2020 - I received a letter from HSBC that "my" application for bank account was denied. As I did not apply for any account with HSBC, I contacted the bank informing this.

* MAY 1 - 2020 - HSBC response received - their conclusion is it was a fraudulent  use of my identity. HSBC put a marker on CIFAS for my protection. If required I could contact HSBC to get CIFAS marker removed.

* OCT 2020 - Tried to apply for a FTB mortgage. After 6 weeks of application, informed by my broker that due to a National Hunter (NH) marker, YBS (Lender) will not be able to provide the mortgage. Never heard of National Hunter before this. My mortgage broker advised me to resolve CIFAS and NH markers before applying for any mortgage.

* FEB 2020 - Subject access request from CIFAS and NH received. CIFAS has marker as 'victim of ID impersonation'. NH has 'refer' status by HSBC for the fraudulent application.

* FEB 2020 - Requested HSBC to remove the markers. In addition, requested HSBC to cover the cost of 1000 for mortgage solicitor and house survey which I already spent.

* APR 2020 - HSBC  response received and declined to remove CIFAs and NH marker, and also declined to pay the amount requested.

Since then, I have tried to chat with 3 mortgage brokers. I  have been finding very hard to get answers from brokers at the moment.

ACCORDING TO BROKER

BROKER 1: CIFAS and NH markers are there for my own protection but I have the evidence from HSBC stating I am the victim, so I should be able to apply for mortgage without any issue. The lender may ask additional documents like copy of ID notorised in the presence of lawyer. 

BROKER 2: Strongly advised me get markers removed first, and if required to forward to Financial Ombudsmen (FOS). I can still apply for mortgages but will have to inform the broker at the very beginning with the HSBC issue.

BROKER 3: waiting for response.

Just to keep updated, I recently requested another copy of CIFAs and NH report.

Mar 2021 - CIFAS report same as Feb 2020. Latest NH report has 'inconsistency' entries provided by YBS. Previous 'refer' markers are also present - as expected.

The 'inconsistency' makers by YBS are against job, current address etc. 

The fraud:

My name, address, DOB used.

A different email, mobile, different work place, salary amount are used.

QUESTION/HELP:

I would like to get some clarity on what I can do. I have applied to FOS for the HSBC issue, do I need to also apply for the YBS 'inconsistency'? Can I or can I not apply for mortgage? I am lost and would really appreciate your help.

ahmjt  

ThisnotThat

Broker 1 is right.  "Victim of Impersonation" is not a "perpetrator" CIFAS marker so whilst a lender may make some additional checks (to make sure it's really you) there is otherwise no effect.

A "refer" status on National Huinmter just means that anyone checking may wish to contact the organisation that put it there to get more information. Again, this is not a negative.

There is no reason why either of these will prevent you from getting a mortgage.

ahmjt

Thanks for you time to reply. This sounds encouraging.

Thrugelmir

I would approach YBS directly and question whether the marker was the reason for the application decline, or whether it was for another reason. In that you didn't meet the lenders criteria. Perhaps the broker was covering their own backside. 

ahmjt

Thrugelmir said:

I would approach YBS directly and question whether the marker was the reason for the application decline, or whether it was for another reason. In that you didn't meet the lenders criteria. Perhaps the broker was covering their own backside. 

That's a good idea. I have had hard time trying to get in touch with HSBC , specially when I am not a customer. For YBS, will I ask for a SAR and specifically question on the inconsistency?

MattMattMattUK

ahmjt said:

The 'inconsistency' makers by YBS are against job, current address etc. 

 

For the sake of clarity, are you saying that YBS has placed a fraud flag on your National Hunter file for "inconsistency", or that YBS declined your mortgage on the basis of a flag from the previous HSBC incident?

In addition to the above poster's comments I had a "Victim of impersonation fraud" flag on my CIFAS file as someone had opened bank accounts and mobile phone contracts in my name, it did not stop me getting a mortgage, but they did have to double check I was actually me, however the conveyancing solicitor was able to do this and it did not cost anything.

Also to note, HSBC are not going to pay any bills for you, their report to CIFAS was correct, it seems your lender, broker, or potentially application is the issue.

ahmjt

MattMattMattUK said:

ahmjt said:

The 'inconsistency' makers by YBS are against job, current address etc. 

 

For the sake of clarity, are you saying that YBS has placed a fraud flag on your National Hunter file for "inconsistency", or that YBS declined your mortgage on the basis of a flag from the previous HSBC incident?

In addition to the above poster's comments I had a "Victim of impersonation fraud" flag on my CIFAS file as someone had opened bank accounts and mobile phone contracts in my name, it did not stop me getting a mortgage, but they did have to double check I was actually me, however the conveyancing solicitor was able to do this and it did not cost anything.

Also to note, HSBC are not going to pay any bills for you, their report to CIFAS was correct, it seems your lender, broker, or potentially application is the issue.

Hi,

On my latest NH report (24/05/2021), I can see YBS has placed an 'inconsistency' flag - so that means YBS has placed this marker. I do not know if YBS has declined the mortgage on the basis of HSBC flag or any other reason.

In Oct 2020 my mortgage broker told me that "Accord" (Part of YBS) would not go ahead with the mortgage due to National Hunter marker. Unfortunately she didn't have any other detail from Accord and kindly asked me to check my NH report. The NH report (from 16/12/2020) had "refer" on HSBC submission and "clear" on YBS submissions.

Below I have provided details on the two reports without any identifiable information.
Things to notice:

- In HSBC submission, wrong info on main applicant information has status 'clear'.
- In Dec 2020 report, all YBS sections had 'clear' whereas in May 2021 report, there are 'inconsistency' markers.

=====================================

National Hunter Report (24/05/2021)

=====================================

HSBC SUBMISSION:

------------------------------------

Submission details: (REFER)

HSCREDIT AO Cards Online

Main Applicant: (REFER)

My info, correct name/DOB/gender. Incorrect marital status, residential status, salary

Main Applicant Current Address: (REFER)

Current address (correct), Incorrect "Time at address"

Main Applicant Telephone (REFER)

Incorrect telephone

Main Applicant Email (REFER):

Incorrect email

Main Applicant Employer (CLEAR)

Incorrect info

REASON:

ID - Impersonation - Current Address

-----------------------------------

YBS SUBMISSION 

Submission details: (INCONSISTENCY)

YBS info

Main Applicant: (INCONSISTENCY)

My correct name, dob, marital status, salary, citizenship etc.

Main applicant corresponding address: (INCONSISTENCY)

My correct current address.

Main applicant previous address: (CLEAR)

My correct previous address (correct)

Main applicant Telephone:(INCONSISTENCY)

My correct mobile number.

Main applicant bank account: (INCONSISTENCY)

My correct bank account info

Main applicant Email: (INCONSISTENCY)

My correct email address.

Main Applicant Employer: (CLEAR)

My correct current employer details.

Main Applicant Employer Address: (CLEAR)

My correct Employer address.

Joint Applicant: (INCONSISTENCY)

No details here.

Security Address: (INCONSISTENCY)

Correct Address of the property we made offer tp.

Solicitor: (CLEAR)

Name and Org ref of solicitor.

Solicitor Address: (CLEAR)

Address of solicitor.

Broker Contact person (CLEAR)

Broker Address: (CLEAR)

Broker's address

Broker telephone: (CLEAR)

Broker's mobile number

KEYHOLDER: (CLEAR)

Seller's estate agent name

Keyholder Address: (CLEAR)

Offered Property's address

Keyholder Telephone: (CLEAR)

I am guessing it is EA's telephone

REASONS:

Conflicting or Unconfirmed Employment Details

================================

NATIONAL HUNTER REPORT 16/12/2020

================================

HSBC Submission same as above report.

YBS Submission:-

YBS Submission Detail: (Clear)

YBS Mortgage

Main Applicant: (Clear)

My name, DOB, Gender, Marital status, Salary, Nationality, Occupation (correct)

Main Applicant Correspondance Address: (Clear)

My correct address

Main Applicant Current Address: (Clear)

My current address (correct)

Main Applicant Previous Address: (Clear)

My previous address

Main Applicant Telephone (Clear)

My correct telephone number.

Main Applicant Bank Account: (clear)

My current account (correct)

Main Applicant Employer (Clear)

My current Employer Info

Main Applicant Employer Address (Clear)

My Employer address

Security Address - Clear

Address of the Property offered

Solicitor - Clear

Solicitor name and ref

Solicitor Address - clear

Solicitor address

Solicitor Telephone - clear

Solicitor's address

Solicitor's telephone - clear

Solicitor's telephone

Broker - clear

Broker name/ref - clear

Broker address - clear

Broker telephone - clear

Keyholder - clear

Estate Agent

Keyholder address (clear)

Offered Property address

Reasons:

No Reason Selected.

ThisnotThat

You need to take this up with YBS.  It's unclear why they declined you in the first place, but what they've now added may well cause problems.

ahmjt

What will be my avenue to get in touch with YBS? A subject access request?

MattMattMattUK

The first step would be to check the mortgage application for errors. These could be something such as you use an abbreviated version of your name on some documents but not on others, that you us a middle name as a first name, that you have a non-hyphenated double barrelled surname and on some documents one is listed, on others the other is listed, on others both etc. Sometimes DOB issues arise when people use MMDDYY instead of DDMMYY or YYYYMMDD etc. Address change timelines different to electoral roll and/or council tax records etc. Citizenship is sometimes complicated by dual-nationality. Then there might be either accidental or deliberate errors on the application around employment status, employer, earnings etc.

You can ask YBS for a SAR, I suspect that that all you will get back is a copy of your application as they are not required to disclose anything further.

ahmjt

Update (Just sharing here, in case it helps someone)
Called YBS Mortgage on 0345 166 9217. The helpdesk then gave me Accord Mortgage's number to call. Accord's helpdesk person checked data.

From Accord's Helpdesk person, the findings are:
1. HSBC's "refer" status was not an issue for denying mortgage. Once Accord saw the "refer" flag, they requested more information from me.
2. For all denied mortgage applications, lenders put a marker in National Hunter.
3. Lending criteria are different for lenders. I am currently employed as "Fixed-term contractor" (FTC) and I had a gap in employment between Aug 2019 - Mar 2020. The Accord Helpdesk person thinks this is a likely cause of denial although he admitted he did not have any details from the underwriter's team. 
4.I asked Accord Helpdesk when do Accord place NH marker - unfortunately, I didn't clearly understand his answer.
5. Requested an SAR from Accord which would take around 28 days (by email).
6. The Accord Helpdesk person (I must mention he was very patient) also suggested to get in touch with the Mortgage Broker for a copy of the application. 

With these info, now I am thinking it may have to do something with my employment status during last years. 
I have been freelancing (LTD) from Jun 2018 till Aug 2019. After that, I was out of contract for five months but was drawing a minimum salary from my own LTD company. I went back to permanent employment since Mar 2020.

I was looking at this Guardian article https://www.theguardian.com/money/2008/nov/15/national-hunter-credit-agency
According this article, 

"Suspect" or "inconsistent" facts, which may cause applications to be flagged as fraud risks, can include:

· Change of employer over a short period;

· Differences in spelling of a surname, initial, or date of birth;

· Change in driving licence number or a variation in other identification documentation;

· The same mobile phone number from more than one applicant;

· A substantial change in stated salary over a short period;

· Income which is difficult or impossible to verify;

· Applicants using details that are apparently from a deceased person.

"

Anyway, it is looking more and more like a complex thing to me. If I like to have professional advise for it where should I be knocking?

ahmjt