Auction conveyancing

SDLT_Geek

GDB2222 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

london21 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Thank you. Think the vendor wants to do A to C. Will have to call my solicitor first thing tomorrow and ask what is pending on my side. The condition implies that if I want the property registered from A to B first will be liable for their stamp duty.

“If there is only one transfer of the land - A to C - then C will only need to produce its SDLT5, its application for registration and the transfer from A to C.

In an assignment of rights, there will be just one transfer of the land: A to C. In this case, C can register its interest in the normal way. Although the notional land transaction between A and B is notifiable for SDLT purposes, FA03/S79 does not apply to the notional transaction. There is no need for a letter confirming an assignment of rights. Only C’s SDLT5 is needed.”

It does not seem the seller wants to do an A to C transfer when the extracts you have posted from auction contract make it clear the intention is that there will be A to B and then B to C transfers. 

I haven’t reread everything in this thread, but my strong impression was that the seller does want to do an A to C transfer, but will do the two stage transfer if the buyer insists and also pays the extra duty. 

OK, let's agree to differ on that then!

london21

SDLT_Geek said:

london21 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Thank you. Think the vendor wants to do A to C. Will have to call my solicitor first thing tomorrow and ask what is pending on my side. The condition implies that if I want the property registered from A to B first will be liable for their stamp duty.

“If there is only one transfer of the land - A to C - then C will only need to produce its SDLT5, its application for registration and the transfer from A to C.

In an assignment of rights, there will be just one transfer of the land: A to C. In this case, C can register its interest in the normal way. Although the notional land transaction between A and B is notifiable for SDLT purposes, FA03/S79 does not apply to the notional transaction. There is no need for a letter confirming an assignment of rights. Only C’s SDLT5 is needed.”

It does not seem the seller wants to do an A to C transfer when the extracts you have posted from auction contract make it clear the intention is that there will be A to B and then B to C transfers. 

My solicitor has asked for documents 

“Please also provide AP1 submitted to HM Land Registry (or to be submitted to land registry with supporting documents”

Seller’s solicitor’s response is 

“The buyer’s solicitors needs to re-read their e-mails.

I have previously advised the purchase of the property is to coincide with its sale which is to take place simultaneously.”

GDB2222

london21 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

london21 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Thank you. Think the vendor wants to do A to C. Will have to call my solicitor first thing tomorrow and ask what is pending on my side. The condition implies that if I want the property registered from A to B first will be liable for their stamp duty.

“If there is only one transfer of the land - A to C - then C will only need to produce its SDLT5, its application for registration and the transfer from A to C.

In an assignment of rights, there will be just one transfer of the land: A to C. In this case, C can register its interest in the normal way. Although the notional land transaction between A and B is notifiable for SDLT purposes, FA03/S79 does not apply to the notional transaction. There is no need for a letter confirming an assignment of rights. Only C’s SDLT5 is needed.”

It does not seem the seller wants to do an A to C transfer when the extracts you have posted from auction contract make it clear the intention is that there will be A to B and then B to C transfers. 

My solicitor has asked for documents 

“Please also provide AP1 submitted to HM Land Registry (or to be submitted to land registry with supporting documents”

Seller’s solicitor’s response is 

“The buyer’s solicitors needs to re-read their e-mails.

I have previously advised the purchase of the property is to coincide with its sale which is to take place simultaneously.”

You really need a new solicitor 

london21

GDB2222 said:

london21 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

london21 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Thank you. Think the vendor wants to do A to C. Will have to call my solicitor first thing tomorrow and ask what is pending on my side. The condition implies that if I want the property registered from A to B first will be liable for their stamp duty.

“If there is only one transfer of the land - A to C - then C will only need to produce its SDLT5, its application for registration and the transfer from A to C.

In an assignment of rights, there will be just one transfer of the land: A to C. In this case, C can register its interest in the normal way. Although the notional land transaction between A and B is notifiable for SDLT purposes, FA03/S79 does not apply to the notional transaction. There is no need for a letter confirming an assignment of rights. Only C’s SDLT5 is needed.”

It does not seem the seller wants to do an A to C transfer when the extracts you have posted from auction contract make it clear the intention is that there will be A to B and then B to C transfers. 

My solicitor has asked for documents 

“Please also provide AP1 submitted to HM Land Registry (or to be submitted to land registry with supporting documents”

Seller’s solicitor’s response is 

“The buyer’s solicitors needs to re-read their e-mails.

I have previously advised the purchase of the property is to coincide with its sale which is to take place simultaneously.”

You really need a new solicitor 

I am in a mess with this my solicitor.
he was expecting A to B then B to C. I just want to complete ASAP without extra costs. I am calling the solicitor’s the auctioneers said are familiar with then but very busy times. Will have to just put pressure on my solicitor to please continue because I am running out of time. 

london21

My solicitor’s response this morning after forwarding seller’s solicitor’s email 

“If this is the way it is to proceed, my indemnity insurance does not cover this and I cannot act. Our insurance does not allow us to do back to back transactions like this. Please call me when you get a moment.”

eddddy

london21 said:

GDB2222 said:

london21 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

london21 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Thank you. Think the vendor wants to do A to C. Will have to call my solicitor first thing tomorrow and ask what is pending on my side. The condition implies that if I want the property registered from A to B first will be liable for their stamp duty.

“If there is only one transfer of the land - A to C - then C will only need to produce its SDLT5, its application for registration and the transfer from A to C.

In an assignment of rights, there will be just one transfer of the land: A to C. In this case, C can register its interest in the normal way. Although the notional land transaction between A and B is notifiable for SDLT purposes, FA03/S79 does not apply to the notional transaction. There is no need for a letter confirming an assignment of rights. Only C’s SDLT5 is needed.”

It does not seem the seller wants to do an A to C transfer when the extracts you have posted from auction contract make it clear the intention is that there will be A to B and then B to C transfers. 

My solicitor has asked for documents 

“Please also provide AP1 submitted to HM Land Registry (or to be submitted to land registry with supporting documents”

Seller’s solicitor’s response is 

“The buyer’s solicitors needs to re-read their e-mails.

I have previously advised the purchase of the property is to coincide with its sale which is to take place simultaneously.”

You really need a new solicitor 

I am in a mess with this my solicitor.
he was expecting A to B then B to C. I just want to complete ASAP without extra costs. I am calling the solicitor’s the auctioneers said are familiar with then but very busy times. Will have to just put pressure on my solicitor to please continue because I am running out of time. 

Is your solicitor just a 'regular' conveyancing solicitor? If so, they won't have experience of this kind of stuff.

And you say that your solicitor has already indicated that they don't want to continue - presumably because they don't know how the process works.


In your position, I think I'd google 'auction conveyancing solicitor' and and call a few explaining that...

• You have a back-to-back auction purchase
• You have to complete by 15th July
• You currently have a regular conveyancing solicitor, but they want to back out, because they don't have experience of back-to-back transactions

• And specifically ask them if they have experience of back-to-back auction transactions

...and see if any of them will quote.

I suspect you'll need a senior/specialist solicitor, so their quote might be a bit higher.

user1977

It may not fit on the regular conveyor belt of the conveyancing sweatshops, but I would think any "normal" conveyancing solicitor would be able to figure out how to do this, auction properties crop up regularly enough. I doubt anybody genuinely specialises in it.

eddddy

london21 said:

My solicitor’s response this morning after forwarding seller’s solicitor’s email 

“If this is the way it is to proceed, my indemnity insurance does not cover this and I cannot act. Our insurance does not allow us to do back to back transactions like this. Please call me when you get a moment.”

As I said above - this is a euphemism for

"I don't know how to do this.  If I proceed and make a mess of this, my insurers won't pay out, because they'll say I was reckless to try to do something I didn't understand."

eddddy

user1977 said:

It may not fit on the regular conveyor belt of the conveyancing sweatshops, but I would think any "normal" conveyancing solicitor would be able to figure out how to do this, auction properties crop up regularly enough. I doubt anybody genuinely specialises in it.

I don't think it's the auction aspect that's the problem.

It's the fact that it's a back-to-back transaction. Many conveyancers will have never come across those.


I suspect that the OP just told their solicitor that it was an auction purchase - so the solicitor took it on. And only found out it was back-to-back when they got all the documentation.


(And I've used solicitors who specialise in auction purchases. Because they've done lots of them they know what to expect, so they get the job done quicker, and tend to give more competitive quotes.)

GDB2222

I'll send you a direct message with a solicitor's details. Maybe he can help.