Advice needed on extended garden to match neighbours

AdviceNeeded18

Hello,

To give you a bit of background information, our row of houses used to have garages at the end of each garden which faced out to an accessway that then led to the road. In the past few years our three neighbours to the left have all demolished their garages and extended their gardens over the access way instead as legally each house owns the land directly in front of the garage. We would now like to do the same (as we are no longer blocking anyone's access) so we are currently getting quotes in to demolish the garage and extend the fencing to the back of our property lines which would cover the access way directly behind our garden.

As a courtesy I mentioned this to the neighbour directly to my left to inform them of our plans. However they have said that they would not like us to expand, and instead keep this access way open so that they have the 'option' of building another garage in the future. Does that mean we cannot extend? I've contacted our local council who have not been very helpful but they'd at least told us we don't need planning permission to extend our fence as we own the land.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. We'd still give them access in the form of a gate that we would let them walk through if needed, but legally would we need to get their approval/contact a solicitors before extending?

Thank you, 

neilmcl

What does your, and your neighbours for that matter, deeds say about the access way. You and your neighbours may own the land beyond your garage but you may have covenants preventing you from building on it. 

AdviceNeeded18

Hi Neil,

Thank you for responding, I've found two references to the access way on the deeds which I'll post below:

"So much of the garage way at the rear as is included in this title is subject to rights of way."

"The following are the stipulations and restrictions referred to:-

1. Only houses with or without garages shall be built on the land and

no hut shed or other building shall be erected without the previous

consent of Clout & Tysoe Limited the Registered Proprietors."

Does this mean as long as I provide access in the form of a shared gateway (like they have done for the neighbours next to them) I am within my rights to extend? Or does blocking their access for a future car mean that I cannot do this?

scottishblondie

It's a little rich of them to block their left neighbours off by extending, and then ask you not to do the same to them.  Personally I would just do whatever is allowed by the deeds.  If you feel it necessary you can always get a solicitor to go over the deeds and make sure what you're allowed to do.

Jeepers_Creepers

This neighb has provided a shared gateway for their neighbour so that they conform with the RoW requirements of the deeds? So if their neighbour were to build a garage, your immediate neighbour would have to allow them access over their 'extended' ground - as per the deeds?

In which case it seems pretty clear that - unless you can get permission from 'Clout & Tysoe Limited, the Registered Proprietors' to remove this RoW - then you are stuffed if your neighb does decide to build a garage in future; they would be entitled to drive over that RoW access, your 'extended' garden.

Personally, I would plan the use of that extended garden on a semi-permanent basis, or in a way that will cope with cars being driven over it.

Chances are a garage won't be built - clearly there's no desire for them or the neighbs wouldn't have demolished all of theirs and used the land as extra gardens - but the RoW remains for you as it does for them.

The immediate neighbour who would like to retain the full access option - what have they done with their piece of land? Have they placed buildings/sheds on them? Flower beds? Shrubs, tress? Ie, could their neighb drive over it without causing havoc?!

I think, morally at least, you should be entitled to do the same. But always have in mind that the RoW remains and could be enforced should a garage be built.

Do you have LegProt on your insurance? They are usually very good at providing advice.

AdviceNeeded18

Hey Jeepers,

Unfortunately Clout & Tysoe Limited no longer seem to exist, so asking them to remove the RoW doesn't seem to be an option. 

The neighbour in question has put a small shed and some decking at the back, so if the neighbour to their left suddenly wanted car access for a garage then it would certainly cause havoc. 

It seems a bit pointless to extend the garden if we'll have to somehow allow for access for cars through it so if that's the case it doesn't seem worth it. It's depressing as like you said they seem to have no real plans for a garage and instead are saying no out of spite or greed.

I've checked and can't see any LegProt on the insurance unfortunately.

Thank you

Eldi_Dos

What your neighbour has is a thing of value and they do not want to give it up freely,with the greater use of electrical vehicles having the access to the back of their garden and the potential to put in a charging point is something that can only increase in value.

AdviceNeeded18

One thing I've just realised is that with where they have extended their garden, we can no longer pull out of our garage safely as before there was space to pull in and pull out by driving forward or reversing in. Now that they have extended their garden we can no longer do this and would need to reverse from the garage all the way out of the access way to the main road (which would be incredibly tricky as it's quite narrow). 

Does this mean that they have blocked off our RoW by extending their garden? Just trying to think of a case we can use against them if they get a bit arsey.

Also, would I be right in saying that if they want a garage they would have to build it on their garden and not the right of way? So effectively, if they want a garage they would need to shrink their garden back to where it was and have the garage in the same location as previously because you can't build a permanent building on a right of way?

Norman_Castle

AdviceNeeded18 said:

 would I be right in saying that if they want a garage they would have to build it on their garden and not the right of way?

Yes. The row still exists for all properties but no one is using it. I'd fence the land as your neighbour has done explaining you will happily revert it when they install a garage or when another neighbour further to the left requires access..  

Jeepers_Creepers

AdviceNeeded18 said:

One thing I've just realised is that with where they have extended their garden, we can no longer pull out of our garage safely as before there was space to pull in and pull out by driving forward or reversing in. Now that they have extended their garden we can no longer do this and would need to reverse from the garage all the way out of the access way to the main road (which would be incredibly tricky as it's quite narrow). 

Does this mean that they have blocked off our RoW by extending their garden? Just trying to think of a case we can use against them if they get a bit arsey.

Also, would I be right in saying that if they want a garage they would have to build it on their garden and not the right of way? So effectively, if they want a garage they would need to shrink their garden back to where it was and have the garage in the same location as previously because you can't build a permanent building on a right of way?

I'd strongly suggest "don't go there"; it's a hiding to nothing. I mean, are you really going to KEEP your garage and START using it again JUST to make this point?!

Instead, be the reasonable rational person you hopefully are, and say to them "Absolutely, I completely accept you have a RoW should you build a garage. So rest assured I'll just do as you have done - probably a shed and decking there, which can always be removed if you build a garage - just as you'd have to do if your neighb also builds a garage."

(It doesn't matter that Clout et al no longer exist - they wouldn't have entertained removing that clause anyway.)

As you say, it's very unlikely they will build a new garage there, but they are entitled to. Just like you all are. So, be 'contrite' and reassure them that the RoW will always exist, but you are just doing what they are doing, and will remove it should they ever build a garage - as they would have to do.

To be frank, as Eldi says, your neighb isn't doing anything wrong, or even anything unreasonable - unless they actually try and complain about you doing something that they have also done. Should they try, you just reassure all the entitled parties that the RoW, of course, still exists. And get on with it.

Do all this with a smile. Through clenched teeth if needed.

casper_gutman

A right of way will allow you to cross someone's land as needed to get to your own property. I don't think you have the right to go past your property to turn round on your neighbour's land.

I mean, it would be exceedingly mean of them to stop you if the space was there, but I'd be willing to bet you only really have a RoW over the land between your garden and the highway.